Different pay and responsibility for 2 year RN's VS 4 year RN's - page 14

I'm completing an RN to BSN program in 2 months. I have learned so much in the BSN program I wish I had taken it sooner. The additional education has taught me skills I never learned in trainings,... Read More

  1. by   New CCU RN
    Originally posted by EmeraldNYL
    This is such a good post. Sometimes it seems that nurses can't agree on anything. How did the nursing culture get to be like that? Why can't we support each other, our accomplishments, and our goals? Does anyone who has been in nursing for awhile have any insight on why the culture of nursing is like this? I am still a student, so this is difficult for me to understand. Other professions, for example physicians, all totally back each other up-- but it seems like nurses really don't.

    Moe,

    Unfortunately, the quote that Cheryl used "Why can't we all support eachother" appears to be from one of Nikki's later posts. That makes me doubt that she stopped reading and was reacting to an earlier post.
  2. by   New CCU RN
    It is amazing though how people will behave and name-call for seemingly no reason. And you are right....perhaps it just is her jealousy shining through.
  3. by   fab4fan
    OK, I have some huge problems with things that Emerald said, but to threaten someone...this just goes beyond the pale.

    Yes, in retrospect I should have been more professional in expressing myself, and I take responsiblity for adding fuel to this fire, but no matter how angry someone makes you, threats of retribution are uncalled for.

    If someone on the BB makes you that angry, for heaven's sake, use the "ignore" feature. Don't threaten the person...good God, it's just not worth it.

    Like I said, although I disagree with Emerald's POV, I regret fanning the flames of this war, and I am saddened that it's gotten to this level.
  4. by   EmeraldNYL
    Sigh.... I really don't know what to say anymore guys.... I always look forward to coming home from school and checking out the posts on allnurses and talking to you guys, but today I was really upset. I'm so saddened by how we treat each other sometimes...
  5. by   Tweety
    Originally posted by EmeraldNYL
    Sigh.... I really don't know what to say anymore guys.... I always look forward to coming home from school and checking out the posts on allnurses and talking to you guys, but today I was really upset. I'm so saddened by how we treat each other sometimes...
    Nikki, the board hasn't changed a bit. Don't let a few posts upset you and think the whole board is bad. That would be too bad.

    Take a deep breath and relax. You've stated your opinions. How they are received is out of your hands.

    You've been admirable in your responses and have tried very hard to be respectful. Just don't go thinking the whole board is a bad board. Keep it in context.

    (P.S. Continue to be kind to us ADN's, after all we may be the one's orienting you, if you can stand it. I've oriented and many a BSN. LOL)
  6. by   l.rae
    Originally posted by feb9822
    . My AD provided very well for me as a staff nurse as long as I was task oriented and wanted to come to work, perform my duties and go home and read up on the newest way to insert a foley catheter. Fortunately I have discovered that I needed more than that.
    l do not understand this statement.....my responsibilities in the ER go WAY beyond accomplishing "tasks"...l have to be ever vigilant re: the status of my pts, interpret labs and make sure the MD's are made aware to intervene, babysit residents who write stupid and or dangerous orders...l am certified in ACLS and PALS ans soon to be TNCC ... alson l am S.A.N.E. certified .l could go on and on...l may be misinterpreting and if so l appologise,,,,but on the surface, l find this statement to be misleading to say the least and highly insulting at best.....my efforts to stay current go well beyond reading up on the newest way to insert a catheter as do all clinical nurses that l am aware of.....................LR
  7. by   Tweety
    Originally posted by l.rae
    l do not understand this statement.....my responsibilities in the ER go WAY beyond accomplishing "tasks"...l have to be ever vigilant re: the status of my pts, interpret labs and make sure the MD's are made aware to intervene, babysit residents who write stupid and or dangerous orders...l am certified in ACLS and PALS ans soon to be TNCC ... alson l am S.A.N.E. certified .l could go on and on...l may be misinterpreting and if so l appologise,,,,but on the surface, l find this statement to be misleading to say the least and highly insulting at best.....my efforts to stay current go well beyond reading up on the newest way to insert a catheter as do all clinical nurses that l am aware of.....................LR

    I don't understand that statement at all either. That's probably why there isn't much understanding between BSN and ADN's sometimes. To me it's way off the mark as to what I do on a daily basis as well. I'd like to think that I also use some critical thinking and common sense and intrepretive skills in my job, rather than just perform tasks. (Of course the first few months on the the job I was very task oriented, as are the BSN-trained nurses I've met and helped orient.)

    How many ways are there to insert a foley catheter any way???? Maybe I need to go back and learn some more tasks. LOL
  8. by   l.rae
    Originally posted by 3rdShiftGuy
    I don't understand that statement at all either. That's probably why there isn't much understanding between BSN and ADN's sometimes. To me it's way off the mark as to what I do on a daily basis as well. I'd like to think that I also use some critical thinking and common sense and intrepretive skills in my job, rather than just perform tasks. (Of course the first few months on the the job I was very task oriented, as are the BSN-trained nurses I've met and helped orient.)

    How many ways are there to insert a foley catheter any way???? Maybe I need to go back and learn some more tasks. LOL
    ya know, generally, l am an easy going person, out spoken and direct, but l don't tend to get riled easy...but these kinds of narrow thinking elitest attitudes MAKE ME CRAZY and are to blame for the flames on this topic......what else do you think will happen when you insult someone then cover it up with..."l'm just voicing my oppinion"..?. guess that's what the ignore feture is for....l hope l mis-read the intentions of the poster.(feb9822)..surely they are not truely that clueless........ LR
    Last edit by l.rae on Feb 13, '03
  9. by   Gardengal
    After reading so many pages of responses I guess my reply to this thread is probably redundant-but here goes......

    I think that on graduation the AD or Diploma nurse usually feels better prepared than the BSN grad and thus the confidence and preparation give a good head start. So...at the bedside up front BSN might (and I repeat might) lag a bit behind-depending on the sequence of senior level clinicals. Once the first couple of months are passed all levels tend to equal out for a while.

    Where I see the difference coming in is that the BSN degree programs tend to lead one to further questions sooner, so it prompts more investigative learning. If you are a self motivated learner to begin with, the BSN program may not prompt you any further.

    One of the issues we need to look at in nursing is the comparison of credentials between disciplines in health care, and the respect garnered with credentials. I personally do not have a real prejudice one way or another in terms of bedside care, but believe that nursing leadership is more respected by the other disciplines with the credentials of BSN and MSN.

    I started into a BSN program in 1977 because of this same argument, and the belief that BSN would be the minimal entry level for nursing by 1981, then heard 1985, and it still hasn't happened. Our society might not be able to allow us the time to ever decide that BSN should be the entry level-and I don't think it should be.....

    I believe that i would have been about the same as a graduate whether I had an ADN or BSN. As an internally motivated person I seek experiences I feel that I need. I think that at that point the advantage of BSN is that it opened my avenues for further areas of learning. Much of my clinical learning post graduation however was self taught or sought out thhrough self paid continuing ed.

    When I had several managers that were not so great I decided there had to be a better way...and got my MSN with a focus on administration. This helped me with the financial piece, staffing requirements and credentials, but it was nly after being in management for a while that I came into my own....that old experiential learning of trial and error. I believe that some of my course work helped to decrease my possible initial errors, but at this point who knows......I still make errors, try hard, and do my best..I think that is the key.

    pay me for what I do, how well I do it, and my level of responsibility -don't pay me for my credentials. But if I'm considered for a promotion a bit sooner than a person with less education, then I'm happy I looked at the overall environment and sought out more degrees.

    By the way-my husband is in an asociate degree program for nursing right now. If he wants the BSN when he's done, tuition reimbursement at any hospital he chooses will pay him back. Why pay it out all at once?
  10. by   Stargazer
    Originally posted by Gardengal
    By the way-my husband is in an asociate degree program for nursing right now. If he wants the BSN when he's done, tuition reimbursement at any hospital he chooses will pay him back. Why pay it out all at once?
    Really? SWEET!

    Good post, Gardengal.
  11. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by EmeraldNYL
    Sigh.... I really don't know what to say anymore guys.... I always look forward to coming home from school and checking out the posts on allnurses and talking to you guys, but today I was really upset. I'm so saddened by how we treat each other sometimes...
    Nikki,

    Welcome to nursing and allow me share something (kinda long) with you.

    One night at work I had a somewhat unstable patient who aspirated during suctioning (I was NT suctioning him). His respiratory status was already fragile and the aspiration bought him an ET tube and a ventilator. The poor guy had already been in our ICU, to the floor, home, and then back to our ICU again with a massive wound infection all in a matter of weeks following his original heart surgery.

    He was getting close to being discharged to the floor again when this aspiration happened. Due to the infection his kidneys took a hit and he had been dialysed that day so his BP was a bit precarious. Soon as the tube went in he dropped his pressure, started into V-tach, and coded. We managed to bring him back but not without the help of the resident on call that night and 3 nurses besides myself. We worked on getting this guy stable from about 1 in the morning until shift change at 7am.

    Shortly after the code, I received another patient via life-flight with a serious aneurysmal dissection who needed to be prepared for the OR. Very unstable herself!

    It was a crazy, crazy night to say the least and there was almost always 3 RN's in the room buzzing around to get things done safely and to the best of our ability. We did an awesome job, it was the greatest teamwork I've every experienced and our patients were getting the absolute best care in town. I felt absolutely awesome about that...we did everything right...damn we were good!

    7am. Day nurse walks in and boy am I ready to give report. (This is NOT a day vs night complaint btw.) I sat down to gather my thoughts and began to speak. All the while the oncoming nurse interrupted me every 5 seconds breaking my train of thought. We carefully watched the monitor as I tried to speak and each time his pressure dropped a little more, I got up to titrate his Neo drip. I would resume report, but she would interrupt again, jumping ahead in report, walking around the room, and finally just saying...it's time for you to go home...it's 7:05!! I NEEDED to debrief about that night. I needed to convey at what point in his treatments we were and what she was facing coming into this situation. The patient's BP was still unstable and it was still a work in progress.

    FINALLY, after getting completely fed up with the interruptions, and just completely put-out about the go-home comment, I said, "(her name), would you please be patient. I'm trying to tell you about the night we had in here last night."

    After that was silence. I spat out the rest of my report to the best of my frustrated ability and left (but went up on the NEO one last time). On my drive home that morning my feelings of accomplishment from doing an awesome job went from jubilation to despair and I cried the whole 20 mintues drive home. It consumed me for days.

    Two days later I came into work only to find out that the same nurse who was a brick wall that fateful morning had WRITTEN AN INCIDENT REPORT about me. The report stated that the patient's BP was low and that it was an UNSAFE situation!!!! She also added into the incident report that I said to her, and she quoted me, "be patient with me, we've had a busy night in here."

    This compounded my feelings of grief, it was VERY upsetting to me. I had only been in nursing a little more than a year at that point and it was my first incident report. It made me feel like I want to quit--right there--on the spot. So when I went to talk to my (awesome) Nurse Manager about it, she said something to me that I will never forget. First of all, she agreed that the incident report was probably uncalled for, and that she has had nothing but great reviews from fellow nurses, therapists, and physicians about me, but she she also stated that I needed to not let things such as this get to me. That it's going to happen and as long as I know I did everything I humanly could as this patient's nurse, then let-it-roll. And that there are many stressors that not only I, but that day nurse as well faces daily in our jobs. I had no doubt that the care provided was the best possible. She told me to "Get a backbone, nursing is NOT easy." I have an incredible amount of respect for my NM, my fellow RN's and the docs on our unit. I'm in the absolute best situation, realize it, and am thankful for it especially when I read about nursing in other areas of the country.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is Nikki - get a backbone and don't let things get to you to the point that it affects your daily life. There is ALWAYS going to be someone who will find fault with you--especially in nursing.

    Hold your head up and be confident. Confidence is 99% of the battle and confidence is respected. Don't cower away from this place that you enjoy so much and get so much out of! You are already gaining experience!

    ~Sally

    p.s. Really appreciating the opinions of seasoned nurses, no matter how they got there, and respecting their experience when it comes to nursing doesn't hurt either.
    Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Feb 13, '03
  12. by   Tweety
    Sally, read your story with interest. She reported you for a low BP, I snickered at that. You were in INTENSIVE CARE were you not. Sigh.....

    But what you say is true. One must have a strong backbone!
  13. by   Q.
    Originally posted by MishlB
    The philosophy of the college???? Try...it's all about the benjamins, cash, the all-mighty dollar. Period.
    Mishl,
    General Ed requirements have nothing to do with the "all-mighty dollar." Tuition is the same, regardless on if you're required to take a course in lit or a course on Biblical studies.

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