So many of you are amazing people and nurses. The time you put in responding to posts on Allnurses really does make a difference.
BUT.
When people come here asking for advice on a situation, they are not looking for your opinion of them as a person or their behavior. You all know what threads I'm talking about.
It's one thing to point out that their behavior could potentially be dangerous to patients.
It's one thing to be honest and tell them that their future doesn't look too bright.
It's one thing to suggest they may find seeing a therapist very helpful.
It's another to tell them they are mentally ill, mock them RELENTLESSLY, or judge them. When you do this to your fellow nurses (that have just come to you for advice), you're worse than that poor, scared soul you FLAMED for thinking a drug abuser may have a bloodborne illness.
These posters are often simply desperate, scared, or just plain curious!
I know it's important to have a thick skin when you work in healthcare, and I sure as heck am not busting out the trigger-words bully†or NETY.†It's just that even in my CNA class, it was emphasized over and over that it's not our place to judge patients. Can't you afford the same courtesy to other nurses?
I'm generally a pretty quiet person, but I believe in standing up for other people. So I just had to put this out there.
I don't think anyone fails to realize that at one point, they too were novices. I do think a lot of novices fail to realize that at some point they, too will become experts and may be seriously aggravated by the ignorant poster who claims that expert nurses forget they once were novices.
Actually, we can forget what it's like to be a novice. When someone becomes an expert, their brains work differently than at the novice level. We can remember our feelings about being anxious, nervous, and scared, but we can't un-learn what we have learned. It has been documented that experts can no longer porifice out the chain reaction of thought processes leading to a solution/action. For example, when an expert nurse becomes a novice nurse educator, the transition can be quite difficult because she/he may speak "over the heads" of a novice student nurse, adding to the anxiety of the student nurse. That's why some believe that expert nurses do not make the best preceptors. I'm not saying that all expert nurses are bad preceptors, but the expert has to meet the preceptee where they are and move forward from there.
Everytime I see a thread devolve into a verbal slugfest, I keep thinking that either party is free to step away at any time. If you remove yourself from the fray, the whole drama will instantly stop being an annoyance and will eventually dwindle down and die. Staying there is a choice. Sometimes I don't think us humans are very bright (myself included ).
I gave your post a "like" for truth, but felt particularly driven to respond to this bit of it. I don't understand why most people will go past a few interactions when they're arguing with others. At some point, you have to see that what you're saying will not get through, and at that point, isn't it just a profound waste of time? Given that it's people on the internet in question here, it only enhances the wasteful nature of the argument. I understand the appeal of trying. It's really cool to know you can interact with and learn from all these different people everywhere. You can change people you'll never meet and affect places you'll never go. But when it's not working, cutting your losses and walking away costs nothing. Yet, people refuse to do it, so we have what I've dubbed "internet fighting", which really just makes both parties look a little bit ridiculous :-P.
Couldn't agree more. I don't get how people can be so passionate about helping patients and yet couldn't care less how they treat the rest of the team. People are people no matter who they are and we all deserve respect.
I have a thick skin, but I don't like that I'm expected to have one. The only thing I hate about nursing is that some women treat each other like crap and think it's acceptable. It's not.
While I am not condoning "meanness," I know how people can be compassionate at work and lose it off the clock. I did it with my own husband when I got home the other night. Being a nurse is emotionally draining. You give and give and give and give--dealing with anxiety from pts/family members that manifests as anger directed at the nurse--and without adequate decompression time, some of us are tightly wound.
I would posit that the most emotionally giving people do NOT make the best nurses for their own well-being. I'm beginning to think that I'm not well-suited to bedside nursing because I can't just roll with the punches. For example, the battery on my work phone crapped out on me the other day, and there were no replacement batteries. I went without a phone for about two hours. I had FOUR people from other departments come up to me and say, "WHY DIDN'T YOU ANSWER YOUR PHONE!!!???" (Just like that, by the way.) When I told them that the battery was dead with no replacements, I got, "THEN HOW ARE WE TO GET A HOLD OF YOU?!?!?" (Just like that, by the way.)
Because I just didn't roll with the fact that I couldn't do anything about no replacement batteries, although I had told the charge and NM of the situation, I got very snippy with *******s number 2, 3, and 4. Some people are better able to just take the situation for what it is and not feel somehow responsible for no replacement batteries. I actually felt somehow responsible for that. That does not bode well for a bedside nurse, where everything that is not my fault somehow feels like it is my fault, and I let people make me believe it.
After all, we all know that nurses are responsible for fixing everything that ever happens to anyone, anywhere. A little bit like moms, that way.
I wonder, where's the concern for the damage done by being required to live up to unrealistic expectations enforced by guilt-tripping compassion police?
You have no idea how strongly this resonates with me right now. :)
That happens on FB as well. My niece does it - "U R so nice". How hard is it to type "you" and "are"?
This is really interesting so I will share. We just had a cultural competency training and covered the different generations and their different values and this exact example came up. What is wrong to one generation is right to another, because of the different values of those generations. Ethics do evolve. The point the speaker made was that this younger generation of teens ( aka gen. C) do not spell things out because of the mentality of being more efficient. They think "Why spell everything out if the concept is understood?" Work smarter, not harder. Generations before gen C may think that it doesn't matter, you still need to do the process correctly. Some generations value process over result, and vice versa. Obviously, not every individual shares the exact same values of their generation, but in broad strokes they share them.
It's really interesting and considering there are 4 different generations in the work force right now, I really think it helps us as nurses to understand where each other come from and how our values are prioritized. I know that employee and public safety is a HUGE priority to me (as as milenial) due to the fact that growing up there was always a concern for terrorism. I have seen this on the news ever since I can remember. Some of my older colleagues don't understand that or why I feel so strongly about it. Like I said, it's really interesting to have an insight into the differing values of each generation and I feel it's just as important as understanding different cultures. It comes down to the fact that these things are not "wrong." They are just different from your values.
Similarly, the way people speak to each other is determined by their different values. What's right to you might be wrong to me and vice versa; However, I will accept you for who you are. Its good to communicate if you feel there is an issue, but in the case of no resolution, it's best to just move on.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
That happens on FB as well. My niece does it - "U R so nice". How hard is it to type "you" and "are"?
I love it when people will type out a long paragraph, and the only word they abbreviate is "u" (you). Really? You can type all that, but you can't type "you"?
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
Exactly. In mainstream American culture, it's rude or evasive not to make eye contact with your interlocutor. However in some Native American, Middle Eastern, and Asian cultures, it's extremely rude to look someone you don't know well directly in the eye. And that's just one example....
In Maori and pacific cultures looking someone in the eye is considered to be extremely confrontational. Its also considered rude to be standing when someone of a leadership role is, and they will attempt to sit as soon as possible. Both things that are different in my culture as NZ euro
Just anecdotal, but both of my Ds say they refuse to use text speak, even when texting. D2 says she can foresee a day when all we do to communicate is grunt at each other in various intonations.
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
False dichotomy. Abrasive does not equate to non-constructive.
Many times people get abrasive because those asking for constructive advice freak out when they get it. Posters rarely go straight to abrasive, snarky, etc unless it's something like that person claiming to be a nurse while living in abject fear of catching diseases in the most outrageous ways, of which they should know better.
Not to mention abrasive is one of those concepts that is very subjective depending on who is using it.
Actually, we can forget what it's like to be a novice. When someone becomes an expert, their brains work differently than at the novice level. We can remember our feelings about being anxious, nervous, and scared, but we can't un-learn what we have learned. It has been documented that experts can no longer porifice out the chain reaction of thought processes leading to a solution/action. For example, when an expert nurse becomes a novice nurse educator, the transition can be quite difficult because she/he may speak "over the heads" of a novice student nurse, adding to the anxiety of the student nurse. That's why some believe that expert nurses do not make the best preceptors. I'm not saying that all expert nurses are bad preceptors, but the expert has to meet the preceptee where they are and move forward from there.
If you like fun labels, this is called the curse of knowledge. Not as deadly as the curse of Tutankhamun, but you don't have to violate a tomb to catch it, either.
I gave your post a "like" for truth, but felt particularly driven to respond to this bit of it. I don't understand why most people will go past a few interactions when they're arguing with others. At some point, you have to see that what you're saying will not get through, and at that point, isn't it just a profound waste of time? Given that it's people on the internet in question here, it only enhances the wasteful nature of the argument. I understand the appeal of trying. It's really cool to know you can interact with and learn from all these different people everywhere. You can change people you'll never meet and affect places you'll never go. But when it's not working, cutting your losses and walking away costs nothing. Yet, people refuse to do it, so we have what I've dubbed "internet fighting", which really just makes both parties look a little bit ridiculous :-P.
I don't know. The transgender patient being called an "it" had me all over the place. People on both "sides" were making good points..in fact, there were about 10 "sides" going on. It helped ME learn something, and it helped ME look at myself. So, yea, sometimes the arguments do go somewhere.
And again, sometimes it's just FUN to be contrary and poke a skunk. Like heron and many others have said (really well, by the way) this is a safe place for me to blow off steam.
If you like fun labels, this is called the curse of knowledge. Not as deadly as the curse of Tutankhamun, but you don't have to violate a tomb to catch it, either.
).
dudette10, MSN, RN
3,530 Posts
Actually, we can forget what it's like to be a novice. When someone becomes an expert, their brains work differently than at the novice level. We can remember our feelings about being anxious, nervous, and scared, but we can't un-learn what we have learned. It has been documented that experts can no longer porifice out the chain reaction of thought processes leading to a solution/action. For example, when an expert nurse becomes a novice nurse educator, the transition can be quite difficult because she/he may speak "over the heads" of a novice student nurse, adding to the anxiety of the student nurse. That's why some believe that expert nurses do not make the best preceptors. I'm not saying that all expert nurses are bad preceptors, but the expert has to meet the preceptee where they are and move forward from there.