So many of you are amazing people and nurses. The time you put in responding to posts on Allnurses really does make a difference.
BUT.
When people come here asking for advice on a situation, they are not looking for your opinion of them as a person or their behavior. You all know what threads I'm talking about.
It's one thing to point out that their behavior could potentially be dangerous to patients.
It's one thing to be honest and tell them that their future doesn't look too bright.
It's one thing to suggest they may find seeing a therapist very helpful.
It's another to tell them they are mentally ill, mock them RELENTLESSLY, or judge them. When you do this to your fellow nurses (that have just come to you for advice), you're worse than that poor, scared soul you FLAMED for thinking a drug abuser may have a bloodborne illness.
These posters are often simply desperate, scared, or just plain curious!
I know it's important to have a thick skin when you work in healthcare, and I sure as heck am not busting out the trigger-words bully†or NETY.†It's just that even in my CNA class, it was emphasized over and over that it's not our place to judge patients. Can't you afford the same courtesy to other nurses?
I'm generally a pretty quiet person, but I believe in standing up for other people. So I just had to put this out there.
It is interesting the comments I see on here. Generally, we have the comments that are pro-kindness and those that are anti-kindness. There are a few that are somewhere in between. However, some of the anti-kindness comments say things like: well, if you judge my being nasty, then you're just as nasty; I'm not at work or being paid so I don't have to be kind or polite; it's the internet, deal with it.
I have to ask... really? I understand the urge to jump to defensiveness when someone points out our faults or errors or things we just could have done a little better. But we are adults. We are all capable of taking a step back and evaluating our personal behavior. No one is above that. And if you think you are, well... I'd like to say that is your problem... but it isn't... your attitude can harm people. But really, that's not what I'm most concerned about here. We do need to put on our big-kid britches and not take everything so personally. That is something I love about this site. It forces me to practice not taking things personal. It forces me to practice my own responses to things, and to evaluate how really constructive the things I say are.
That being said... what I am most concerned about is this huge defense of being rude to one another. And the arguments being used to defend it. Really? We want to actually put energy into defending being less than constructive with our peers? And when I say peers I mean human beings... not just fellow nursing students and nurses. "I'm not at work so I don't have to be nice"... it is sad if people have to be paid to be kind. What that really says about a person is that they are not nice people generally, so they put on an act at work for the money. Come on now... I find that hard to believe. Would it be more accurate to say that in many cases people are rude to one another on here because they have frustrations that they are taking out on innocent strangers, I believe sociologist call this "scape-goating".
"It's the internet"... ok. Let's apply this logic somewhere else. A kid goes to school. Normally they are not picked on. But one day they make one mistake... and somehow a mob forms over a couple days time and suddenly other students are calling them vicious names and treating that kid terribly. Well, that's school. Deal with it. Don't talk about being more helpful or kind. Don't try to influence positive change. Why? Because that is how it is, so deal. I'm pretty sure most people here would not agree with this logic... to just let things be bc that is how they are. Settle for sub-par rather than attempt for something better.
This post was attempting to put some positive juju out there. Whether we like it our not. Change, positive or negative, ruffles feathers and makes people defensive. Even if status quo is less than good, most people prefer it over change or anything unfamiliar. However, as individuals we can choose to see the positive or we can fight for the negative.
And no, this is not "holier than thou". My previous post admits I am rude as well. I am less than helpful as well. However, I do not defend those actions. I see them as opportunities to grow and learn. We all have that choice. And it is not that difficult. No one is asking for things to be sugar coated or, what did another poster refer to it as?... something like "feministic constant nurturing"... (again, really?).
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
No one is "pro-rudeness", but there is no need for censorship. If ya don't like something I--- or anyone else---says, you have a few options. One would be to just ignore me, the other to block me. (I am using myself as an example). A third, if you feel too many posts are "rude" would be to look at yourself and how you respond and maybe take a break from online internet forums. I have done the latter many times, sometimes for as long as months til I felt more in balance.
No one gets to control the tone or the words of another participant on a public forum. I see a lot of that lately: People calling out others who are being direct, and telling them they are "rude". Being straight-up is not rude. But if you see it that way, I can't change your mind, nor will I aim to. People are just so sensitive sometimes and often, the meaning behind the words is mistaken. It's hard on a forum to read another's tone exactly. How about looking at it as glass half full and just give another poster the benefit of the doubt-----believing that they are sincere?
To each his or her own. I can be very warm and fuzzy, where it's called for, but not when people complain when the way I see it, there is no real issue. This board is as about as warm, fuzzy, tame and "safe" as any forum I have visited. I am shocked at the rudeness on a lot of so-called "Mommy Boards". Talk about heated and angry debates. I had to quit those.
Also posters on a public forum would do well to remember threads do take on a life of their own. Neither the original poster, nor participants, get to decide the tone or direct how others partricipate or what they say.....as long as it's within TOS. That is the nature of the internet, and that is what I mean when I say "it's the internet". Like the party example, don't hang with those who upset you; find those you like and go there. Same here, virtually.
Anyhow this board is far from brutal or rude. It's safe and enjoyable to me.
No one is "pro-rudeness", but there is no need for censorship. If ya don't like something I or anyone else says, you have a few options. One to just ignore me, the other to block me. (I am using myself as an example). But no one gets to control the tone or the words of another participant on a public forum. I see a lot of that lately: People calling out others who are being direct, and telling them they are "rude". Being straight-up is not rude. But if you see it that way, I can't change your mind, nor will I aim to. People are just so sensitive sometimes and often, the meaning behind the words is mistaken. It's hard on a forum to read another's tone exactly. How about looking at it as glass half full and just give another poster the benefit of the doubt-----believing that they are sincere?
To each his or her own. I can be very warm and fuzzy, where it's called for, but not when people complain when the way I see it, there is no real issue. This board is as about as warm, fuzzy, tame and "safe" as any forum I have visited. I am shocked at the rudeness on a lot of so-called "Mommy Boards". Talk about heated and angry debates. I had to quit those.
Also posters on a public forum would do well to remember threads also take on a life of their own. Neither the original poster, nor participants, get to decide the tone or direct how others partricipate or what they say.....as long as it's within TOS. That is the nature of the internet, and that is what I mean when I say "it's the internet". Like the party example, don't hang with those who upset you; find those you like and go there. Same here, virtually.
Anyhow this board is far from brutal or rude. It's safe and enjoyable to me.
I'm too lazy to crop. :) Ok, yes, I agree with most of what you say here. However, the use of the word "control" I don't agree with. The OP wasn't attempting to control anyone. She was trying to influence more positive tone... and just like you say... if a person takes offence to this, they can just ignore it. I agree that this site is much better than others I have seen... but does that actually justify some of the nastiness that is on here from time to time? I don't think it does. And who does it hurt to be reminded once in a while that we could stand to be a little less abrasive?
The other words, and I am picking them out of your post but they are used by many here, are warm and fuzzy and being straight. Here's the thing... I thought OP made it clear that they were not asking for warm and fuzzy and actually condoned being straight with one another. Yet, when someone mentions being less abrasive, some people jump to thinking they are asking for warm and fuzzy and not being real... that isn't the case... at least it isn't from where I am standing.
I think what some people are saying is it is hard on the internet because sometimes, no matter what you say, someone will take offense.
Personally, I've been on AN for a long time and initially as an internet neophyte I took offense to some stuff that wasn't really a big enough deal for me to worry about. There have been times in heated threads that I've had to walk away for a bit. When you go toe-to-toe on the political threads, it can get dicey. However, knowing that those threads heat up before you venture in with an opinion kind of leaves a person with no place to complain.
As others have said, use that "report" button if you think you are being mistreated or someone is violating TOS.
(Just to add that AN responses are mild compared to other online websites).
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I guess the idea I got from that post was not about censorship or person A trying to dictate what person B says. But rather, simply suggesting that everyone use a little self-censorship and mindfulness when posting.
We cannot control what others post or how others perceive our words. But we all do have control over what we post and the words we choose.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Some topics are hot-button issues by nature. When you entitle a post "you will probably hate me for this", it sets the tone. But what others say will go many directions.
And it's fine by me if you disagree with anything I say. We all have the freedom to choose. I base my words and how I say them by how I feel. I am real. If it's viewed as abrasive, I honestly do apologize in advance, but I also don't feel a need to change my posts/words in general unless it's to clarify. I don't go out of my way to be abrasive at all.
Like Steph said, some people will be offended no matter what I say or how I say it. So be it.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I am mindful when I post. I am not gonna please everyone. I gave that up a long time ago. I don't go out of my way to offend anyone, but I also post what I mean to say. Directly and clearly and succinctly as possible.
I guess the idea I got from that post was not about censorship or person A trying to dictate what person B says. But rather, simply suggesting that everyone use a little self-censorship and mindfulness when posting.
We cannot control what others post or how others perceive our words. But we all do have control over what we post and the words we choose.
I think what some people are saying is it is hard on the internet because sometimes no matter what you say, someone will take offense.[/quote']
This is very true. I have done it myself... trying to just be constructive and helpful and the other person took it waaaaay different. Even after I re-read my comment many times I honestly couldn't see how I had been rude. Things like that do make it hard to figure out where we cross from constructive to abrasive.
I should probably also add, for the sake of full disclosure lol, that I have also been on the other side... Someone said something to me, and for whatever reason (my mood at the moment probably), I took it totally the wrong way... and when I revisited that post by chance a few days later, I was like... really Brandie?? That person totally didn't mean that the way you took it. This wasn't on this site, but it has happened.
I'm going for a bullet list, rather than complete responses to the several before me, so here goes! :)
--Attending this internet forum is not equivalent to a child who is required to attend school. Being here is 100% voluntary, and can be 100% avoided, and VERY easily I might add. In no way analogous to a child who is picked on in school and forced to deal with that.
--Stating "words do hurt" is taking this situation FAR beyond it's value and importance in the world. If words someone reads on an internet forum are able to mortally wound someone, I would have to say that the person 'hurt' has some significant mental health issues that MUST be addressed. That person coming to an internet messaging/discussion group and expecting to find therapy should instead BE DIRECTED TO therapy. No one is responsible for someone else's internalization of words they read online from anonymous people.....people who shouldn't mean anything to them at all. If a coworker asks me "do you think this is a good color for me? I'm not sure...my mother didn't like it, my sister didn't like it, my husband doesn't like it, but I do. What do you think?" WELL....then I say "Sorry, I have to agree with them: it doesn't look good on you, really, I don't think". Then my coworker jumps in front of a bus. My fault? Hardly. She didn't like what I had to say, but she sure as hell can't trace her reason for jumping in front of the bus on ME!
--Asking for a kinder, gentler, more nurturing tone isn't in and of itself a wrongdoing, really (although it DOES depend on how it is asked that will determine whether the person asking really IS wrong, IMHO). What is most DEFINITELY wrong is continuing to bang people over the head with the insistence that in order to participate on this forum, one MUST CONFORM to whatever the person requesting believes is the kindest, gentlest, most nurturing way to be. Why does ANYONE think they have the right to insist upon that?
You asked....ok....we heard you. Those who decide that they would like to alter their speech patterns are just as free to do so as those who do NOT wish to change one blessed thing about their style of writing. At what point can those who are deemed to be guilty of rude, unkind, unnurturing, unsupportive posts demand that THEY have had "enough" of the berating for their ways?
It's become absolutely crystal clear that people are what they are, want to do what they want to do, and the constant nanny-mongering that I'm seeing in which SOME people keep trying to tell OTHER people that the change needs to come from the OTHER people is getting ridiculous.
Like it. Don't like it. Stay. Go. Them's your choices :)
The analogy was not to say that kid and adults are the same. It was to show that arguing that things are how they are and so they shouldn't change for that reason alone is ridiculous. That entire commetn, RNsRWE is a good example of someone taking what one person has said and turning it into something completely different. I didn't intend what I said to be taken in any of the ways you took them. But, in your words: "Like it. Don't like it. Stay. Go. Them's your choices."
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Let me tell you a little story of myself.
I joined allnurses.com LONG ago, like 13 years. I was super-duper addicted to this site and had 10s of thousands of posts---- (I am NOT exaggerating)----- in just a couple of years. There used to be a form of recognition for the sheer number of posts people had here. I was in the top 2 or 3. Quantity I had down; quality, well IMO that is another story.
Then, something happened to me that I did not like. I got "too into it". I started to take offense at people and things they said, when I would say now, they were rather innocuous and meant no offense at all. I began to get tense and annoyed when people expressed disagreement with me, and often they really seemed "too abrasive" for my liking. I spent WAY too much time discussing politics and other hot-button topics and began to develop an attitude that I, now, am not proud of.
Then I did something I think was wise, in retrospect. I took a LONG break from this site. I am talking YEARS. I was just that annoyed and keyed-up. I stopped seeing the good in what others had to say and saw things so negatively. I was in disagreements to WIN, not to HEAR anything anyone had to say. I got annoyed at the drop of a hat and would be mad for no reason.
So, I used my brain and realized what I had on my hands was a full-on addiction to conflict and disagreeable behavior. So safe to engage on a computer screen, rather than face-to-face. I am sure that was part of it. When I look back, I feel a bit ashamed and embarassed. Most of the 10s of thousands of my posts were NOT helpful, useful or positive.
That break was a long breath of fresh air. I am glad I took it. I only recently (in the past few months) came back with a new attitude and the promise I would spend no more than 30 minutes---to an hour on the outside--- each day here. I also would stay as much away from politics and other hot-button issues as I could. Not avoiding conflict, but limiting my exposure to it was my plan.
It's worked. I rarely find anything annoying or offensive. You see, I realized when one takes offense often and with different people, she has to look at the COMMON DENOMINATOR; in this case it was ME.
You can't change others or what they say, but you have within your complete control, HOW you perceive and react to it.
If you ever find yourself becoming increasingly tense, annoyed or frustrated, I suggest a break. Not necessarily long like I had, but a few days to re-tool the brain and change your attitude.
It certainly worked for me.
Now some are gonna take offense at anything I say. I am ok with that, as long as I am clear I did not SET OUT to annoy or offend anyone.
I am good with that. And despite the title of the thread, I will not "hate" anyone for what they say here. If I need a break in the future, I will definitely take it.
brandiep1982
236 Posts
It is interesting the comments I see on here. Generally, we have the comments that are pro-kindness and those that are anti-kindness. There are a few that are somewhere in between. However, some of the anti-kindness comments say things like: well, if you judge my being nasty, then you're just as nasty; I'm not at work or being paid so I don't have to be kind or polite; it's the internet, deal with it.
I have to ask... really? I understand the urge to jump to defensiveness when someone points out our faults or errors or things we just could have done a little better. But we are adults. We are all capable of taking a step back and evaluating our personal behavior. No one is above that. And if you think you are, well... I'd like to say that is your problem... but it isn't... your attitude can harm people. But really, that's not what I'm most concerned about here. We do need to put on our big-kid britches and not take everything so personally. That is something I love about this site. It forces me to practice not taking things personal. It forces me to practice my own responses to things, and to evaluate how really constructive the things I say are.
That being said... what I am most concerned about is this huge defense of being rude to one another. And the arguments being used to defend it. Really? We want to actually put energy into defending being less than constructive with our peers? And when I say peers I mean human beings... not just fellow nursing students and nurses. "I'm not at work so I don't have to be nice"... it is sad if people have to be paid to be kind. What that really says about a person is that they are not nice people generally, so they put on an act at work for the money. Come on now... I find that hard to believe. Would it be more accurate to say that in many cases people are rude to one another on here because they have frustrations that they are taking out on innocent strangers, I believe sociologist call this "scape-goating".
"It's the internet"... ok. Let's apply this logic somewhere else. A kid goes to school. Normally they are not picked on. But one day they make one mistake... and somehow a mob forms over a couple days time and suddenly other students are calling them vicious names and treating that kid terribly. Well, that's school. Deal with it. Don't talk about being more helpful or kind. Don't try to influence positive change. Why? Because that is how it is, so deal. I'm pretty sure most people here would not agree with this logic... to just let things be bc that is how they are. Settle for sub-par rather than attempt for something better.
This post was attempting to put some positive juju out there. Whether we like it our not. Change, positive or negative, ruffles feathers and makes people defensive. Even if status quo is less than good, most people prefer it over change or anything unfamiliar. However, as individuals we can choose to see the positive or we can fight for the negative.
And no, this is not "holier than thou". My previous post admits I am rude as well. I am less than helpful as well. However, I do not defend those actions. I see them as opportunities to grow and learn. We all have that choice. And it is not that difficult. No one is asking for things to be sugar coated or, what did another poster refer to it as?... something like "feministic constant nurturing"... (again, really?).