I tend to keep my finger on the pulse of new(er) trends.
This subject is something I've alluded to before, yet now I am even more convinced it may become reality.
My state--a west coast state--recently (last year) redefined the scope of practice for MA's to include much of what RN's are responsible for, based on a new tiered level of education and certifications. Colleges have jumped on the bandwagon to develop intense MA programs to fill the need.
At one time, MA's were relegated mostly to Dr.'s offices (which used to be the domain of RN's). That may not be the case much longer, if the trending continues.
I was just speaking with a fellow student from a math class, who is pursuing her MA. One of our college's nursing program professors is apparently steering potential nursing candidates (friends of hers) away from the nursing program on the QT. She stated, "Now that the scope of practice for MA's has been legally expanded, the hospital is looking to integrate MA's to fill the floors, instead of the more costly RN's."
Just sayin'. Research on your own, and draw your own conclusions.
Ooops I guess someone already brought this up[/quote']
Sure did!!!
I seek to enlighten people who choose to challenge nursing; if we were "replaceable" we would've LONG been replaced; these ideas of scope revision occurs, then the issues come up where more nurses are NEEDED and REQUIRED; as well as our scope continues to widen; so again, nursing will continue to NURSE ON...
I'm tired of being called a two year RN. It took me four years to get my ADN. I know some people who took three but NO ONE can do it in two. The program it'self is two years yes, but in order to START those two years you need A&P, Microbiology, Chemistry, intro to psych, Human Development, Ethics, Nutrition, Dosage and Calculations, Comp 1
Aside from microbio, those are all first level classed that you can bang out within a year. Never heard of dosage and calc as a class ever. That stuff is just our hw. If you'd like to be called a3-year or 4-year ADN, be my guest.
At any rate I think its about time I concede this debate. My research of nursing is being done as I progress through the curriculum. Maybe ill chime in once I get further, and I learn something invaluable that I can't possibly explain to an MA because the vast knowledge of physiology required to comprehend an order such as "watch for shock, keep epi nearby" would cause their heads to explode trying to wrap their minds around the sheer complexity of the situation, then ill be sure to make my way back here and retract all statements about professional competence at each level of healthcare.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Aside from microbio, those are all first level classed that you can bang out within a year. Never heard of dosage and calc as a class ever. That stuff is just our hw. If you'd like to be called a3-year or 4-year ADN, be my guest.
At any rate I think its about time I concede this debate. My research of nursing is being done as I progress through the curriculum. Maybe ill chime in once I get further, and I learn something invaluable that I can't possibly explain to an MA because the vast knowledge of physiology required to comprehend an order such as "watch for shock, keep epi nearby" would cause their heads to explode trying to wrap their minds around the sheer complexity of the situation, then ill be sure to make my way back here and retract all statements about professional competence at each level of healthcare.
Til then :)
I think as a brand new nursing student in their first semester of nursing it is difficult for you to know the intricacies of what being a nurse entails. Of course someone can be taught to respond to certain numbers on a monitor with specific instructions for which drip and when...however it take someone with a vast knowledge of pathophysiology to know independently what drip to titrate and why.... to give the best patient outcome.
I know of many nursing curriculum that require Pharmacology and drug calculations as a separate class in their programs.
I cannot condone the placement of non licensed personnel at the bedside of patients putting thier health at risk. Administrations are looking at this as a financial gain for them with little regard for the patient and their safety
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Yup, because clearly the education brought on by 2 years of nursing school prepared a new grad to run and stabilize 9 drips on a single patient whereas the ma would have crashed and burned getting tangled in the tubing.
If you think so little of nursing, then by all means, find your bliss studying something else. There are plenty of other people who really want to be nurses.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Yes. The best nurses I know started in ICU, titration of drips, etc. That's due to the education guided by seasoned nurses, and the knowledge of the new grad RN; senior rotation is done in Stepdown and shadow rotation to ICU and/or ER; so it's not impossible for new grads to handle a busy ICU; again, I think you underestimate new nurses being competent enough to be put into those situations and can excel in them; it has been occurring for years and enough of a success rate for new grad programs Critical Care programs to continue. I've been a new grad ICU nurse; titrating drips is not a "feat"; the knowledge, care and the stabilization that goes song with it isn't either; it's "new" because if the transition of the role of student to novice nurse; but having that knowledge and putting it together as a new nurse is probable and possible.
FYI, ADN is the same amount of time as a BSN...there are two years of pre requisites PRIOR to getting into an ADN program. Even in diploma programs, there are pre-requisites; there is no nurse that I know of that has done two years without any pre-requisites to build on; they are doing pre-req's to build on the nursing base, so if there are nurses that did ALL of those pre-req's combined with nursing classes; but most mere mortals have completed at least 1-2 years of pre-requisites.
I also suggest you research more thoroughly into nursing education, and nursing ENTIRELY instead of making assumptions about what nursing is...a nursing degree is a total different animal, than most associates or bachelors degrees.
Agreed. I went to a diploma program. Granted, that was many years ago, but my classmates were going into ICUs and flourishing, with the help of experienced staff.
If you don't have a solid foundation, you can't advance to more complex patient care/management. It's like trying to run before you can walk. An MA doesn't have that foundation behind her/him, so yes, I think an MA put into patient care will crash and burn.
It seems rather trollish to come to a nursing site and tell nurses how irrelevant they are.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I think as a brand new nursing student in their first semester of nursing it is difficult for you to know the intricacies of what being a nurse entails. Of course someone can be taught to respond to certain numbers on a monitor with specific instructions for which drip and when...however it take someone with a vast knowledge of pathophysiology to know independently what drip to titrate and why.... to give the best patient outcome.
I know of many nursing curriculum that require Pharmacology and drug calculations as a separate class in their programs.
I cannot condone the placement of non licensed personnel at the bedside of patients putting thier health at risk. Administrations are looking at this as a financial gain for them with little regard for the patient and their safety
Aside from microbio, those are all first level classed that you can bang out within a year. Never heard of dosage and calc as a class ever. That stuff is just our hw. If you'd like to be called a3-year or 4-year ADN, be my guest.
At any rate I think its about time I concede this debate. My research of nursing is being done as I progress through the curriculum. Maybe ill chime in once I get further, and I learn something invaluable that I can't possibly explain to an MA because the vast knowledge of physiology required to comprehend an order such as "watch for shock, keep epi nearby" would cause their heads to explode trying to wrap their minds around the sheer complexity of the situation, then ill be sure to make my way back here and retract all statements about professional competence at each level of healthcare.
Til then :)
Um as far as I know all of these courses are included in the 4 year BSN program and THEY get to count the time they spend in those courses toward how many years they put into school. Us ADN's however are supposed to just toss those years aside and be looked at like someone who cranked out a few classes in two years when it is just NOT reality. I would just like to be given credit for those courses I took.
I have been through many steps to get where I am, from MA to FNP, currently teaching LVNs.
Nurses at any level are more trained than an MA, sorry to say. The thing is that MDs treat them better because they do EVERYTHING they are told to do. Nurses fight for what's right for the patient. Example RN: "hey let's stop the TPN on the patient, they are eating a regular diet"
Example MA: MD saying to MA" hey let's keep the patient on the TPN because we will get more money for this" MA responds: OK---- true story!
I don't see how anybody could legitimately compare 9-10 month MA programs to 2-4 year nursing programs. To think that they can perform under the same scope as us is ridiculous! I'm not saying tgat MAs are ignorant, incapable of learning or anything along those lines. They fill a certain role, and nurses serve another, more complex and autonomous role.
Leave the MAs to taking vitals and escorting pts in Drs offices. Leave the nursing stuff to nurses!
Another interesting article on the subject. There are more job postings for CNAs/MA's than for entry level RNs,http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-REB-18786
Im with you! I was thinking the same thing, only will nurses actually get on board to do it. (Walk, protest) people are afraid for their jobs and not going to be blackballed. I feel so useless the way my intellect is suppressed much like a Stepford Wife when I try to be treated fairly and with respe
LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN
8,429 Posts