You think the "Nursing Glut" is bad now?

[Guttercat, ASN, RN]

I tend to keep my finger on the pulse of new(er) trends.

This subject is something I've alluded to before, yet now I am even more convinced it may become reality.

My state--a west coast state--recently (last year) redefined the scope of practice for MA's to include much of what RN's are responsible for, based on a new tiered level of education and certifications. Colleges have jumped on the bandwagon to develop intense MA programs to fill the need.

At one time, MA's were relegated mostly to Dr.'s offices (which used to be the domain of RN's). That may not be the case much longer, if the trending continues.

I was just speaking with a fellow student from a math class, who is pursuing her MA. One of our college's nursing program professors is apparently steering potential nursing candidates (friends of hers) away from the nursing program on the QT. She stated, "Now that the scope of practice for MA's has been legally expanded, the hospital is looking to integrate MA's to fill the floors, instead of the more costly RN's."

Just sayin'. Research on your own, and draw your own conclusions.

[SoldierNurse22, BSN, RN]

This, while sad and terrifying, is not surprising. This is what happens when nurses subscribe to the idea that our profession is nothing more than a job. It is treated as such.

[That Guy, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

This, while sad and terrifying, is not surprising. This is what happens when nurses subscribe to the idea that our profession is nothing more than a job. It is treated as such.

It is just a job. Why should it be more?

[SoldierNurse22, BSN, RN]

It is just a job. Why should it be more?

Every profession is a job, but not every job is a profession.

[sueall]

OP: If you are referring to the new Washington State MA laws/regulations, why not just say so?? It's not a big secret! I reviewed the new laws/regulations and do not find them to be as draconian as suggested. The scope of practice, even for a MA-certified, would hardly allow an MA to walk in and take over a floor RN's position. The new laws do, however, provide little incentive for anyone to hire an RN for office practice. CMAs will most likely increasingly dominate office practice.

Has the new legislation increased a CMA's marketability for office practice? Yep. Has it increased a CMA's marketability as a hospital RN replacement? Not as currently written. Hospitals may become interested in CMAs as adjuncts, but the current law would not allow them to function as RN substitutes on the hospital floor.

But I do agree with the advice to stay tuned for further changes!

[algebra_demystified]

I see it as a good thing. The role of the RN will continue to evolve, and I think it will be upwards. Less paper-chasing, more assessment. I say let the marketplace decide. Would you rather have RNs take your blood pressure, or would you rather have them treat patients for HTN?

[RNperdiem, RN]

I wish I could be as optimistic as algebra-demystified, but I see the reality more like the nurses responsible for a lot more patients because the MAs are "doing all the work" (or not). Of course everyone is working under the nurse's license, and you are responsible for everything.

I read plenty of threads about the conflict between nurses and CNAs, I see a similar scenario playing out. Same story, different unlicensed personnel.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I see it as a good thing. The role of the RN will continue to evolve, and I think it will be upwards. Less paper-chasing, more assessment. I say let the marketplace decide. Would you rather have RNs take your blood pressure, or would you rather have them treat patients for HTN?

I think this is a mistake. Personally I do not think taking a blood pressure is beneath the nurses role and there is important information that can be obtained LISTENING to the B/P. Just like listening to the Apical pulse isn't just for a number...in the presence of an acute MI the development of a rub/gallop/murmur is indicative of a worsening of the patients condition and/or an extension of the MI.

The addition of non-licensed personnel will NOT bring about the disappearance of any paperwork...it will only entail more paper work for one nurse to document the conditions of 30 acute care patients who is "cared for" by the 5 MA's......The MA's will replace the RN at the bedside. Do anyone really think that they will just add these people to the schedule and not get rid of the more expensive personnel? There won't be more assessment...you will be further for the patients and yet still bear the responsibility of the MA's actions. Trust me I came from a time that team leading was in nursing...it wasn't a picnic. I went to critical care because I got tired of charting on people I never laid eyes on.

This makes me angry....when did we as nurses begin to believe we were too good to be nurses? everyday I see the dumbing down of the bedside nurses responsibility all in preparation of these non licensed personnel to "take over the bedside" while the RN get relegated to the desk...Acute care will be run like LTC with one licensed person responsible for all the non licensed personnel at the bedside.

It is about saving money.....I think it is an effort to get rid of the red ink and decrease their budgets by getting rid of what they feel is an unnecessary expense.....qualified nurses at the bedside is an unnecessary expense. The largest non revenue generating expense of the hospital are the nurses salaries....ask any CEO. If they can cut that in half...they are all for that. It won't matter to them the quality of care......for YOU, the NURSE, WILL STILL be held accountable.

I want a nurse to take my B/P for maybe she can pick up on a subtlety that she can act on that the CNA/MA missed and save/improve my life. As a nurse I m not giving a B/P med without taking it myself unless I trust that person implicitly.

With all this push for more education and advance degrees....nurses are educating themselves out of the bedside...out of a job. It makes me sad to watch this...somewhere along the line we lost who we re. Bedside nursing became something to escape from and something people decided they were too educated for....and wanted to move on to a real nursing job.

This is NOT GOOD and I hope I am wrong....

[anotherone, BSN, RN]

As much as I diskike nursing sometimes, it is my job and i rather have one than not. This will just push things towards the direction esme said. For the same reasons I prefer and do when choosing see mds/dos over nps or pas.

[VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN]

This will only serve to accelerate a trend that has been going on a long time in nursing - to de-skill and deprofessionalize our profession, due to concerns by TPTB of $$$. Nursing 'tasks" are broken down and then given, piece by piece, to poorly-paid non-professionals. Once these vital parts of the nursing role are porificed out to unlicensed personnel, we have lost these pieces of nursing forever. I believe the ACA will only make this trend much worse.

If you wish to see what the constraints of government-funded healthcare has done to the profession of nursing, one only has to look to the typical nursing home (i.e., the ones where Medicaid is the main source of reimbursement, not private pay).

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

In my part of the country, RNs are very rarely employed in physician office settings... mostly only large, multi-specialty clinics. Office staff is generally LVN & MA. BTW, I believe we are one of the 2 remaining states that still have "permissive licensure" - whereby physicians can 'delegate' anything they want to, to whomever they choose (srsly) because that individual is working under her/his license. But because they are also practicing in one of the most litigious states, physicians are unlikely to take advantage of this loophole because of the risks associated with it.

Bottom line? Just like all healthcare service providers, physicians are scrambling to stabilize their incomes in light of dramatic changes that accompany the ACA. I've seen some of the financial projections of the impact on reimbursement & it ain't pretty. When it comes to trimming costs, labor is a fat juicy target.

Just curious - with the change in MA scope for WA state, is there very much overlap with LPNs? If so, THAT is the group that should be really concerned.

[OCNRN63, RN]

I wonder what new-fangled title they'll come up with for these "highly educated" MAs that will be working in the hospital? I know what the patients will end up calling them..."nurse."

When I read this, it eases the sting of having to stop working a bit. OTOH, it's frightening as someone dealing with a serious illness and aging parents. If either of us are sick, I want nurses at the bedside, not someone who got a certification/license at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.

A previous poster is right: We did this to ourselves.