You think the "Nursing Glut" is bad now?

Nurses General Nursing

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I tend to keep my finger on the pulse of new(er) trends.

This subject is something I've alluded to before, yet now I am even more convinced it may become reality.

My state--a west coast state--recently (last year) redefined the scope of practice for MA's to include much of what RN's are responsible for, based on a new tiered level of education and certifications. Colleges have jumped on the bandwagon to develop intense MA programs to fill the need.

At one time, MA's were relegated mostly to Dr.'s offices (which used to be the domain of RN's). That may not be the case much longer, if the trending continues.

I was just speaking with a fellow student from a math class, who is pursuing her MA. One of our college's nursing program professors is apparently steering potential nursing candidates (friends of hers) away from the nursing program on the QT. She stated, "Now that the scope of practice for MA's has been legally expanded, the hospital is looking to integrate MA's to fill the floors, instead of the more costly RN's."

Just sayin'. Research on your own, and draw your own conclusions.

Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.
I tend to keep my finger on the pulse of new(er) trends.

This subject is something I've alluded to before, yet now I am even more convinced it may become reality.

My state--a west coast state--recently (last year) redefined the scope of practice for MA's to include much of what RN's are responsible for, based on a new tiered level of education and certifications. Colleges have jumped on the bandwagon to develop intense MA programs to fill the need.

At one time, MA's were relegated mostly to Dr.'s offices (which used to be the domain of RN's). That may not be the case much longer, if the trending continues.

I was just speaking with a fellow student from a math class, who is pursuing her MA. One of our college's nursing program professors is apparently steering potential nursing candidates (friends of hers) away from the nursing program on the QT. She stated, "Now that the scope of practice for MA's has been legally expanded, the hospital is looking to integrate MA's to fill the floors, instead of the more costly RN's."

Just sayin'. Research on your own, and draw your own conclusions.

The tone of this toxic thread is one of the many reasons facilities are looking at expanding tasks for those that are not licensed or have less schooling.

While I think nurses are the BEST choice for patient care, we may be selling ourselves short by back biting all the time. If I can get a MA to insert foleys, give meds etc and they don't complain about their hours, the patients or the work load vs a nurse who will do the same tasks but will complain about working nights, weekends etc and cost more.....well who would you chose?

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The tone of this toxic thread is one of the many reasons facilities are looking at expanding tasks for those that are not licensed or have less schooling.

While I think nurses are the BEST choice for patient care, we may be selling ourselves short by back biting all the time. If I can get a MA to insert foleys, give meds etc and they don't complain about their hours, the patients or the work load vs a nurse who will do the same tasks but will complain about working nights, weekends etc and cost more.....well who would you chose?

There's so much wrong with everything you said I don't even know where to begin....

The fact that you are (apparently) a manager in med/surg and/or CCU makes it all the more terrifying.

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Specializes in ICU/PACU.

Good luck with that. Hospitals won't even hire CNAs much less additional MAs, whatever that is. Why hire more people when the RN can do it all?

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A friend just looked into a nursing program. Went to the college's nursing department information session. Was told the MA route (over the RN route) might be the best option for finding a job post-graduation.

Hmmm.

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Specializes in MLTC.

This is not the case in NY. Most facilities here will only hire BS RNs. There are few LPN positions left. In my borough there are 2 hospitals, neither have LPN or MA positions, they are hired into nursing homes, adult care facilities, and offices. I have noticed that the scrub nurse has been replaced with a surgical tech, but they haven't done that in NJ.

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The tone of this toxic thread is one of the many reasons facilities are looking at expanding tasks for those that are not licensed or have less schooling.

While I think nurses are the BEST choice for patient care, we may be selling ourselves short by back biting all the time. If I can get a MA to insert foleys, give meds etc and they don't complain about their hours, the patients or the work load vs a nurse who will do the same tasks but will complain about working nights, weekends etc and cost more.....well who would you chose?

What makes you think the MA won't start complaining about the very same things?

Oh that's right, it won't matter, they already cost less.

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What makes you think the MA won't start complaining about the very same things? Oh that's right it won't matter, they already cost less.[/quote']

I'm at my job because I love my patients not for the below standard pay, not getting paid for overtime, or no benefits. It's my choice to be there because I have the flexibility to go back to school, and take care of my sick parent, and apparently I'm considered a "full time" employee.

I do tell the MD if something is not right or if there is a med error ordered by them. I USE my critical thinking skills. Many wonderful NP students come through my office, and thankfully they let me pick their brain whenever I have a question. They have no sympathy for me, and they will ride my high tail out till next week if I dare act like some know it all. I practice within my scope of practice, and WILL NOT do anything I'm not comfortable with doing, and yes I have refused to give meds and injections. If they choose not to employ a RN, then they can do it, I won't do it. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I thought I might hurt someone.

I feel bad if so many of the great nurses out there have had a bad experience and/or opinion of MAs . I was taught to respect my role in the medical world, and to those that have way more knowledge than I do. I think being a nurse is hard. I feel nurses don't get enough credit. But please don't bash all MA's. Some of us actually love what we do, don't say "yeah I'm the nurse", or are trying to take over an RN's job. The real issue is those allowing it, and those that are trying to keep the all mighty dollar.

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I feel bad if so many of the great nurses out there have had a bad experience and/or opinion of MAs . I was taught to respect my role in the medical world, and to those that have way more knowledge than I do. I think being a nurse is hard. I feel nurses don't get enough credit. But please don't bash all MA's. Some of us actually love what we do, don't say "yeah I'm the nurse", or are trying to take over an RN's job. The real issue is those allowing it, and those that are trying to keep the all mighty dollar.

Daisy-mae,

Definitely not bashing MA's. Good God no. We're all just people trying to make it in this world, and often the route we choose (professionally) is based greatly on potential payback and opportunity, or, "Return on Investment." Many people are not in the position personally to pursue a four or greater year degree.

Your hit the nail on the head when you said, "the real issue is those allowing it."

I'd add that it's not just being "allowed," it's being encouraged, driven even, by entities with power.

In my area, MA's are being given greater and greater scope of practice. As an RN, who put in the time, sweat, and $$ for education, this is frightening.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.
I'm at my job because I love my patients not for the below standard pay, not getting paid for overtime, or no benefits. It's my choice to be there because I have the flexibility to go back to school, and take care of my sick parent, and apparently I'm considered a "full time" employee.

I do tell the MD if something is not right or if there is a med error ordered by them. I USE my critical thinking skills. Many wonderful NP students come through my office, and thankfully they let me pick their brain whenever I have a question. They have no sympathy for me, and they will ride my high tail out till next week if I dare act like some know it all. I practice within my scope of practice, and WILL NOT do anything I'm not comfortable with doing, and yes I have refused to give meds and injections. If they choose not to employ a RN, then they can do it, I won't do it. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I thought I might hurt someone.

I feel bad if so many of the great nurses out there have had a bad experience and/or opinion of MAs . I was taught to respect my role in the medical world, and to those that have way more knowledge than I do. I think being a nurse is hard. I feel nurses don't get enough credit. But please don't bash all MA's. Some of us actually love what we do, don't say "yeah I'm the nurse", or are trying to take over an RN's job. The real issue is those allowing it, and those that are trying to keep the all mighty dollar.

What is the MA scope of practice? Without licensure, and operating under the MD's license, I was under the impression that there was no scope of practice, only what the MD requires of the position.

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Specializes in NICU.

Do pts ever confuse the titles of medical assistant and physician assistant? (Or is it physician's assistant?)

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Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.
What is the MA scope of practice? Without licensure, and operating under the MD's license, I was under the impression that there was no scope of practice, only what the MD requires of the position.

^^^ Yes that, the MA scope of practice is set by the MD. This is a lot of responsibility for the MA, but also the MD.

In the outpatient world MAs are what makes the offices run. They really do it all. It is just the way it is.

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Specializes in Management, Med/Surg, Clinical Trainer.

"The tone of this toxic thread is one of the many reasons facilities are looking at expanding tasks for those that are not licensed or have less schooling.

While I think nurses are the BEST choice for patient care, we may be selling ourselves short by back biting all the time. If I can get a MA to insert foleys, give meds etc and they don't complain about their hours, the patients or the work load vs a nurse who will do the same tasks but will complain about working nights, weekends etc and cost more.....well who would you chose?"

There's so much wrong with everything you said I don't even know where to begin....

The fact that you are (apparently) a manager in med/surg and/or CCU makes it all the more terrifying.

BrandonLPN [apparently] I stand by my original statements.

Re read my post it states the BEST choice is nursing for these tasks, however the fact is MD offices have already switched to MAs. Many MAs have done a great job in the MD practice area; I have witnessed this up close. I have seen them take vitals, do intakes, input data in EMRs, give report to the MD, do injections, give nebs, add scripts to the EMR....all under the MDs license and CONTROL.

Many outpatient facilities are owned by Providers, how long will it take them to use MAs in this arena to save money?

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