I am a new grad FNP. Long story short, I found a doctor who is looking for an NP who can work at his busy Internal Med clinic. However, when I initially met him, he told me that he would prefer me to shadow him/volunteer at the clinic for a month or two. Basically, he is asking me to do "clinical hours" (just like in school) for free. He would like me to observe how he practices medicine and at the same time wants to know if I would be a successful NP at his clinic. He said that he hired NPs/PAs before (without shadowing experience with him) and they all did not do well. He believes that this volunteer experience will benefit both of us.
He did not promise me the job. All he said was that the position is currently available. He alse stated that "Worst case scenario, if i do not work there, i will gain the valuable knowledge and experience by following him." I like the practice. I wish I would be able to work there someday. But at the same time, i would like to hear opinions from NPs regarding this matter. I feel like it's unfair to do clinicals again (after already graduating) without any type of compensation or even verbal promise that I am getting a job offer.
Question is: Would you be willing to do clinicals (again) for 2 months without any promise of getting the job? For free? He requires two to three full clinic days per week.
Thank you very much in advance! I would appreciate any input.
No. Just no. It would set a bad precedent for you. Assuming he did hire you, what else would he expect you to do for free? Extra hours? Night and weekend call? All your patient callbacks and labs/imaging/consult review time? Nope. He has a lot of nerve asking you to work that long for free, with no promise of a job! Put him in your rear view mirror. :)
Yeah, this sounds really sketchy. I did a four hour unpaid job shadow for my current job. It was mostly so I could see how the clinic ran and basically to ensure that this was a place I wanted to be employed. I thought that was more than enough time to determine the general flow of things.
This physician seems awfully entitled, as though you should be jumping for joy with all of this "experience". Personally, I learn best by getting my hands dirty. So following him around probably isn't going to do you much good. If you do end up seeing patients, you aren't covered by any type of Liability Insurance unless you purchase your own plan which will set you back about $2000.
If you do end up seeing patients, you aren't covered by any type of liability insurance unless you purchase your own plan which will set you back about $2000.
Excellent point although my opinion is we should all have our own policies anyway.
Well if you really like internal medicine or any offers for shadowing ...I think you should job shadow the physician but that's the thing...just shadow...don't do any paperwork....he can ask you, quiz you on differential diagnosis, don't do any procedures. I actually did some after I graduated FNP school and before taking my AANP exam because I wanted to know how the practice is ran. I wanted to know EXACTLY what I am getting into and if I was a good fit with the staff and the clinic needs and what I need to assess my weakness on. However, I did not do it for 2 months. I only did it for 3 weeks for like twice a week from 9 to noon. I also wanted to know how my supervising provider/boss treats his other employees and patients because if he didn't treat them well then that would be a red flag. I guess it depends on what matters to you most. To me it mattered that the clinic I work for has the same mission and values in terms of patient care as I do. Trust and Respect among colleagues is important. It is important that you know you can trust your supervising physician when you are unfamiliar with certain topics that he/she will back you up or be willing to be a resource for you. It is scary if you are a new grad and have no support.
Specializes in psych, addictions, hospice, education.
Insurance companies won't pay for your services unless you're signed up with them. That involves a collaborative agreement between you and the doc in most places. To prescribe meds, especially controlled meds, you have to apply, specifying a place of employment. How does the doc plan to get around these requirements? This just sounds sooo fishy to me.
I, too, am a new grad. I'd counter offer - three days of shadowing followed by a six week agreement with an opt out for either party at the end. If I really wanted to work there and had had difficulty finding a position.
Hello, everyone! I apologize for the late reply. I took the boards last week and passed (yay!). I got busy celebrating but i'm back now. I read all of the responses and i got really great advice. THANK YOU!!!
First of all, i followed this same MD for a full day and another half day. Then i took a week off. I decided to give it another chance today. I followed him for 2 hours today. I thought that while I wait for another clinic to call or interview me, I will shadow this MD but ONLY during the days and times that i choose to be available.
But anyway, I was at the clinic this morning and the doctor and I had a provate talk with the manager listening to us. He told me that he wants to start training me so I could learn how to fill out the AHA forms. There are 500 patients that are needing this done soon. He said they will get a lot of money for getting these done.
After reading all of the responses here (thank you!), I got the courage to ask him if I will be employed (as opposed to being a volunteer only) when I start training to do these AHA forms. He said no.... He will put me in training which will cost him a lot of money. So i should think about it as him investing in me. And so i told him that I am getting a little concerned since I do not know what would be my employment status in that clinic in the future, once all this training is done. He said the position is available. Then he said i have the apprehension that he might not hire me, so i should understand that he also has the apprehension that i may not stick around or do well in his practice so i should stick around for the training (which will be unpaid). I said Ok, I understand (i really didn't know what else to say at this point, I felt very sad and unappreciated at the moment.)
Deep inside, my pride was a little bit hurt. I felt like he is taking advantage of me. However, i really want to get this job. It's very close to my home, i love the office manager and MAs, the patients are also very attentive.
Anyway, i told the manager that had to leave early today, i had to go home due to an emergency. But i honestly went home because my confidence was low and already got depressed after the talk that we had. He said he is giving his time and effort to train me.... But in my head i was thinking, does he even know that I am also putting my time and effort to his practice for him?
I received a job offer once from a practice that expected you to spend about 10 days with them on a non-paid basis shadowing other providers. But that was after you got the job offer. Your employment was not contingent on whether they liked you or not. I did not take a job for other reasons, but I really would not have minded spending a few days doing unpaid training.
It is a different situation where you are not promised a job at all. I would pass.
Thank you! I felt the same way. If i had a definite job offer, I could volunteer for a few days. I also see myself volunteering my time at a non profit clinic... Not a private practice
AtomicWoman
1,747 Posts
No. Just no. It would set a bad precedent for you. Assuming he did hire you, what else would he expect you to do for free? Extra hours? Night and weekend call? All your patient callbacks and labs/imaging/consult review time? Nope. He has a lot of nerve asking you to work that long for free, with no promise of a job! Put him in your rear view mirror. :)