Working over 40 hours... still no overtime pay? Legal?

[xtina15]

I recently worked two additional shifts, (full shifts of 13+ hours) to orient into a leadership role the unit asked me (well really, told me) I was going to do, in addition to my regular 3 shifts of 13+ hours per week, totally approximately 56 hours in one week. I worked this many hours another week as well. I asked whether or not this entitles me to overtime pay and was met with the response that they are "education hours". And the topic was shot down from there. I asked colleagues/friends and no one else has received this answer. Has anyone heard of this? Am I being blatantly swindled here? And no we are not unionized. HELP?!

[Apples&Oranges]

This was the norm at my last hospital. Training, education or "committee" hours were not coded as "worked" hours, and therefore did not get factored in for OT. It sucks, but their rationale was that these hours were somehow voluntary?? Same ones who would not give call pay, just downstaffed for 4 hours, but expected you to be "available" at 11, or 3 or whenever, if they suddenly needed you. Nope. IDK, pattern of money grubbing behavior. I left.

[JBudd, MSN]

At my hospital, only hours actually "worked" count towards overtime; so "workshop" hours are clocked differently. We lost our daily overtime (despite the union's objections in our last negotiations); so you have to reach 40 hours a week to get OT. Since I am part time, any extra hours I pick up will never be time and a half.

[MrChicagoRN, RN]

That is incorrect. If you are a non-exempt employee, anything over 40 hours in one week, they must pay no less than time and a half. That is the law. Google it. I'm trying to figure out how to show or link it on here.

I used to manage lots of retail stores and am very familiar with labor laws and OSHA.

But it if you actually just google department of labor overtime rule, it pulls right up.

Nursing care facilities are different, and may opt for the "8 and 80" method. They pay OT after 8 hours in a shift, or 80 hours worked in a 14 day period. Fact Sheet - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - U.S. Department of Labor

[akulahawkRN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

There are several different FLSA orders for different industries. Each set of "orders" are slightly different but groups various industries together because there are work similarities among them. One of those should cover your type of work. Then read the entire order and look for any regulations that also "assist" in implementing those orders. Your state may also have a similar type of wage order system that supplements the FLSA orders. Union contracts can (and often do) override those orders precisely because they're a collective bargaining agreement but those contracts are only effective upon those that come under the terms of the contract.

Something to remember is that if you're required to be somewhere to do something by your workplace, you're on the clock because you're doing so at their behest. They generally can't get out of not paying OT because the hours fall under a different category.

Now then when I'm attending classes put on by my work, I am not paid to attend those classes. Why? I can go elsewhere to maintain my certs but I choose to attend the class put on by my work. I'm not required to be there and if I don't show up, I don't get reprimanded. If they send me to a class, that's work time...

[greenerpastures]

Where I work in FL has that same "education" hours are not overtime. However, the interesting part I find in the OP is that it is considered something she volunteered for, perhaps being considered "optional but not required" for her job code, even though she really didn't. She was told she had to do that. Do you have it in writing that you were told you had to do it? If it's not in writing where I work that you are obligated to attend, they won't even pay you education hours.

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

As long as you're going to sit back and allow it, of COURSE they'll take advantage of you.

They've done this before with meetings, classes, etc. Called them "education hours". My schedule this week because of this goes as follows... Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday. No OT for any of it. All 13+ hour shifts. On my training shift because we had a code I actually ended up being there for 16 hours.

[Extra Pickles]

I'll throw out there one more exception that came to mind, if you have sick time or vacation time in a week where you then go over 40 hours or 80 hours in 2 weeks you don't get OT pay for that time because it's actually not extra time. PTO doesn't count as worked time so there's no OT if you get 20 hours of PTO and then end up working 30. You can get the PTO downsized but you can't get OT since you didn't actually work over 30 hours. other than that no way jose, I'm marching to the DOL!

[RNKPCE]

That is incorrect. If you are a non-exempt employee, anything over 40 hours in one week, they must pay no less than time and a half. That is the law. Google it. I'm trying to figure out how to show or link it on here.

I used to manage lots of retail stores and am very familiar with labor laws and OSHA.

But it if you actually just google department of labor overtime rule, it pulls right up.

Below is taken from CA state exceptions to overtime law industrial relation web site for medical industry. This is what happens where I work.

Employees working in accordance with a 14 consecutive day work period in lieu of a workweek of seven consecutive days must be paid one and one-half times their regular rate of pay for hours worked in excess of eight in a workday and 80 in the 14-day period. Such an arrangement must be pursuant to an agreement or understanding arrived at between the employer and employee. No double time is required.

[Extra Pickles]

Below is taken from CA state exceptions to overtime law industrial relation web site for medical industry. This is what happens where I work.

Employees working in accordance with a 14 consecutive day work period in lieu of a workweek of seven consecutive days must be paid one and one-half times their regular rate of pay for hours worked in excess of eight in a workday and 80 in the 14-day period. Such an arrangement must be pursuant to an agreement or understanding arrived at between the employer and employee. No double time is required.

Where I live no overtime pay is paid for a workday in excess of 8 hours. You can have a standard workday be 8, 10, 12 hours. Can even work up to 16 hours and it's straight pay unless you've agreed to a premium shift or something out of the ordinary like that. the OT comes in when it's over 80 in a 2 week period. People who work shifts of 12 hours normally, three one week and four the next get 4 hours of OT that pay period. Those who do 3 12s one week and 3 the next get straight pay. Working 3 12s one week, 2 12s and 1 8hour shift also doesn't get you OT. They are all straight pay, all very legal.

but you can bet your butt if my manager wanted me to come in for anything more than my regular shifts and I couldn't refuse to come in they'd be paying me OT! trouble is lol that I work part time most of the time and so it's a little rare to have me get that extra money anyway.

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

It is federal law that if you are an hourly employee, not salaried, anything over 40 hours worked, time clocked in, is overtime pay. It doesn't matter how they classify it. You need to check the dept of labor website.

That is appalling that you were told that. I would not have even asked because it should be common knowledge of the law if you run a company. Is this a small company? How on earth would an administrator not know the labor laws.

It is against the law. Period.

Amen. This is the absolute truth. Work is Work. If Education is required for your job, it is Work. No difference. If you are required to participate in a Task Force or Shared Governance Committee as part of your job ... that's Work. No difference.

[Asystole RN]

Fact Sheet - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - U.S. Department of Labor

Overtime:

Employers must also pay all non-exempt employees a rate of time-and-one-half the regular rate of pay for each hour of overtime worked. Nursing care facilities may pay employees overtime after 40 hours in a 7 day workweek or alternatively, use the "8 and 80" system. Under the "8 and 80" system, the nursing care facility may pay employees -- with whom they have a prior agreement -- overtime for any hours worked after more than 8 hours in a day and more than 80 hours in a 14-day period.

Lectures, Meetings and Training Programs:

Attendance at lectures, meetings, training programs and similar activities need not be counted as working time only if four criteria are met, namely: it is outside normal hours, it is voluntary, not job related, and no other work is concurrently performed.

Common Industry Problems

Non-exempt employees must be compensated for any time during which they perform activities that benefit the employer.

The most common violation in the nursing care industry is the failure of employers to pay for all the hours worked. This uncompensated time most frequently occurs when employers fail to pay for work performed:

Before and after a worker's scheduled shift;

During an employee's scheduled meal period; and While employees are attending staff meetings and compensable training sessions.

[Asystole RN]

I hope meetings and training are compensated, outside of going to the bathroom that is my entire day