will universal healthcare ( in the usa) cut RN pay?

Published

I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks

Specializes in Making the Pt laugh..

To be honest I don't understand American politics, thousands rock up to a rally and treat some dork in a suit like a rockstar, then there is a common theme that there is a lack of voters....I just don't get it.

We have 2 main parties in Australia and even when they agree with their oponents policy decisions they agree to parts only just to keep the devision between parties. If political parties agree too much they might as well join the parties...and that ain't good for democracy, that is my take on why they disagree on what is the best way to run their (any) country. I could be wrong, it has happened twice so far this year.

As for Universal health care, we have a version of the system here in Australia, Hospitals are State owned (Public) and operated with Nurses and other staff classed as public servants. Some States do better than others and within the one State there are better Hospitals than others. As well as the State run Hospitals we have Private hospitals that generally require Insurance and often charge an itemised account at the end of a stay.

To confuse the issue, which does make sense eventually, there is the option of going Private in the Public system, choosing your own Dr but everything else the same as for Public Pt's. Everyone from the homeless to millionaires can access the public system for free, but there are often long waiting lists for elective surgery, (elective surgery is a huge list that sometimes encompasses what we would not call elective). THose who can afford it tend to go Private for better "service" and shorter waiting times.

As for Nurse pay, a new grad in the Public system can earn $38, 500 in salary plus penalty rates and overtime (apparently with overtime and penalties it is not uncommon to earn $55, 000 in a year as a grad). We do have a National Union in Australia for nurses which could go some of the way to explaining the payrates. As for losing jobs, there are a stack of positions at the hospital I work at, and I have not heard of nurses having trouble getting a job interstate either.

This description is a rough overview of what happens here in Australia, keep in mind that we have had this system for a long time, and it is not perfect, I dont know what model is suggested for the US but I can't see it being all doom and gloom as some are suggesting. Without meaning to offend, a State such as _____ where it is miserably cold, suffering from blizzards might find that they would have to raise pay rates to compete with the State of ______ which has a better climate. As State A raises pay rates to attract Nursing staff, State B would have to do the same to keep theirs.

Just my opinion, maybe it helps.

Disclaimer: I could be wrong, it has already happened twice this year.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
Unions have their good qualities and their bad qualities. My mother is part of the union at Ameritech, a phone service. She said it has been the worst thing she's ever been a part of. She sees more employees get away with abusing FMLA and sick leave and the company puts up with it because of the union. I don't want to be part of a union like that, one that will be as ineffective as the one my mother joined. As I've said before, people have the right to vote for Obama or McCain. We may not like it. It's sad that instead of uniting as a country, these parties such as the Democratic Party and the Republican party are keeping the American people divided when we should really be working together to solve the many problems that face this country.

I don't want to be part of a company like that.

But your Mom has to earn a living.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

IMO the people make the union, not the other way around. No matter how "good" the international union is, the people that work there will be the ones who determine whether the local union is worthwhile or not. As far as the company keeping the bad employees...that is their own fault. There are rules in place to protect the union members, yes, but there are set steps that the company can use to terminate poor employees. In general they would rather not waste the energy going through the steps, so instead they just blame the union. This leads to discontent in the membership...giving the company exactly what they want eventually. If they divide you, then you can't stand together to present a united front against them.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

There are many jobs out there that do offer health insurance. I've never worked a job that didn't offer health insurance, granted it is expensive at times but that is when you make CHOICES. That's the key word here. People make choices in their lives and then don't want to deal with the consequences of those choices. Just about every town has a hospital that offers health insurance. Every hospital has entry level positions that only require a GED/HS diploma. Anyone with an average IQ can get a GED. People choose to not get an education. There are many government programs out there to help people get their GED, to earn a college degree, etc. It's all about choices, some people choose to be self-sufficient and others choose to rely on the government. I believe that if the government weren't there to fall back on then people would have to be self-sufficient. I don't believe that it is the government's place to provide healthcare for the citizens.

I find it asinine to expect someone else to pay myy medical bills. I suppose if that's how I grew up and I didn't know any better I would think it was an okay program but I didn't grow up depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either.

I was going to reply to this thread with this very thought and then I came accross this statment (in bold).

Access to fair, affordable and decent health care coverage SHOULD NOT EQUAL EMPLOYMENT!!! (Nor education level, as I imagine those with higher education have jobs that are more likely to offer affordable health care insurance).

Yes, I'm Canadian and have grown up with UHC. I value it. I'm so glad to have it. It's not perfect by any means. There's a lot about our system that needs fixing.

But, in Canada, you are covered whether you are rich, poor, a student, homeless, have a good job, a bad job, no job.

I don't imagine every job in the USA offers medical insurance and I think that is an asinine comment to make.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

I understand what you are saying, Herring. She's worked at that place for over 20 years just so she could provide me a better life. I think union or not, we should be thankful that we have jobs because at where my mom works, the employees are told on a monthly basis that there will be lay-offs coming.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/Surg, LTC/Geriatric.

I find it asinine to expect someone else to pay myy medical bills. I suppose if that's how I grew up and I didn't know any better I would think it was an okay program but I didn't grow up depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either.

"If I didn't know any better"????? DO NOT imply that I am in any way stupid.

"depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either"

The government DOES NOT support me or my family. My husband and I work and support our family! Our very hard earned income is taxed and that is what pays for UHC for us and all citizens of Canada. My children are in NO WAY being taught to "depend on the government" to support them.

You are entitled to your views on UHC, just as I am. However, I have class and tact on my side. You are just coming across as ignorant and self-righteous.

Edit: Lets just read the thread a few below this one which is entitled "My son was denied health insurance!". Again, I'm SO GLAD I live where there is UHC and you can't be denied for being overweight, underweight, this, that, anything the insurance company fancies at the time. You talk a lot about choices. Well, I am all for EVERYONE being insured. I will not judge people for the choices they make, good or bad. Everyone is an equal human being and deserves good medical care, regardless of the choices they make in life, upbringing, education, employment or income. It's basic humanity.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in MICU, SICU, PACU, Travel nursing.

Ahh, the thread has been moved. I guess another 30 plus page debate was not in the cards:)

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Socialized medicine=All providers are directly employed by the government.

Socialized finance=Government acts as the transfer agent for health care payments and fees for service.

Socialized finance operates with a 3% overhead cost.

Private insurance 31%.

Which is the better bargain?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
"If I didn't know any better"????? DO NOT imply that I am in any way stupid.

"depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either"

The government DOES NOT support me or my family. My husband and I work and support our family! Our very hard earned income is taxed and that is what pays for UHC for us and all citizens of Canada. My children are in NO WAY being taught to "depend on the government" to support them.

You are entitled to your views on UHC, just as I am. However, I have class and tact on my side. You are just coming across as ignorant and self-righteous.

Edit: Lets just read the thread a few below this one which is entitled "My son was denied health insurance!". Again, I'm SO GLAD I live where there is UHC and you can't be denied for being overweight, underweight, this, that, anything the insurance company fancies at the time. You talk a lot about choices. Well, I am all for EVERYONE being insured. I will not judge people for the choices they make, good or bad. Everyone is an equal human being and deserves good medical care, regardless of the choices they make in life, upbringing, education, employment or income. It's basic humanity.

I love when people take a statement and turn it into more than is there...typical of politics.

I didn't imply that you were stupid, just that when you grow up a certain way that is all you know and that is what you think is right. I did not mean any offense by that statement. You live in Canada, that is all you've known so it doesn't seem like depending on the gov't. Here in the US that is exactly what it is.

Just because I disagree with you does not make me ignorant or self-righteous. We can agree to disagree without namecalling.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
There are many jobs out there that do offer health insurance. I've never worked a job that didn't offer health insurance, granted it is expensive at times but that is when you make CHOICES. That's the key word here. People make choices in their lives and then don't want to deal with the consequences of those choices. Just about every town has a hospital that offers health insurance. Every hospital has entry level positions that only require a GED/HS diploma. Anyone with an average IQ can get a GED. People choose to not get an education. There are many government programs out there to help people get their GED, to earn a college degree, etc. It's all about choices, some people choose to be self-sufficient and others choose to rely on the government. I believe that if the government weren't there to fall back on then people would have to be self-sufficient. I don't believe that it is the government's place to provide healthcare for the citizens.

I find it asinine to expect someone else to pay myy medical bills. I suppose if that's how I grew up and I didn't know any better I would think it was an okay program but I didn't grow up depending on the government to support me and I won't teach my children to live that way either.

Yes, every hospital offers health insurance for their employees and I chose to work for one. I also chose the cheaper program that had more limited benefits, but it was enough for me and my family. Then the hospital chose to take it away from me (and other employees) and force us to take the more expensive program. I now pay over $400 a month for insurance that I hesitate to use (even when my family needs it) because I have a deductible of $500 per person and a 20% co-insurance. After paying the premium, taxes, food, utilities ect... I don't have that extra cash in my bank account on my medical assistant's salary.

Speaking of education, that benefit was reduced by the hospital as well due to the economy. Scholarships and grants aren't as easy to get either (I've been trying). I choose to stay at my job despite this because I have a family to support and need to pay the bills... but it would be nice to not worry about going into more debt just because one of us gets sick while I'm choosing to work, pay for health insurance, and go to school to better myself. I'd even be willing to pay $400 a month for that piece of mind.

I know this is off-topic but it needs to be said. Everyone can and should try to make good choices, but things don't always turn out right. Some of us are luckier than others. I have always been one of those people that has to work twice as hard for everything and whose "good" choices frequently end up going wrong (20/20 hindsight). Right now I choose to take it one day at a time. That being said, there are many out there for whom the choice would be pay the premium or pay the groceries... work at a job with bad or no insurance or don't work at all... pay for college tuition or pay the rent... I myself will have to take a semester off to let my bank account recover from unexpected expenses this year.

Sorry I'm so long-winded, but this subject hits too close to home.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/Surg, LTC/Geriatric.
I love when people take a statement and turn it into more than is there...typical of politics.

I didn't imply that you were stupid, just that when you grow up a certain way that is all you know and that is what you think is right. I did not mean any offense by that statement. You live in Canada, that is all you've known so it doesn't seem like depending on the gov't. Here in the US that is exactly what it is.

Just because I disagree with you does not make me ignorant or self-righteous. We can agree to disagree without namecalling.

I don't think you're ignorant and self-righteous for disagreeing with me over UHC. You are entitled to your opinion.

I do however think you are taking an ignorant and self-righteous stand when you keep talking about "choices". Just like the example that the poster above listed.

What about the 21 year-old, 4th year college student who can't afford insurance, is diagnosed with osteomyelitis and can't finish his last 6 months of his degree and winds up with a dead end job after he recovers just to keep up with his bills and repaying his medical costs? Did he make bad choices?

What about the young married couple whose birth control fails, wind up with a baby, but arn't priviliged enough to work in jobs that offer insurance. Did they make bad choices?

There are too many more examples to list. But again, it's not about what choices people make. It's a basic human necessity to have decent and affordable health coverage. You seem to think that if people have not made "good" choices in life as I guess you apparently have, then they're not worthy. I think it's a bunch of BS.

You live in Canada, that is all you've known so it doesn't seem like

depending on the gov't. Here in the US that is exactly what it is.

Oh, and this statement is quite the steriotype. I hardly think you speak for all Americans. Let them decide for themselves. I've been apart of many message boards, mostly with Americans and I have NEVER ONCE heard any of them make a statement anywhere along these lines. :twocents:

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I'd just like to see how Universal Health Care will be regulated to make sure we aren't wasting money. I, however, dont trust that UHC will be regulated by anyone with people's interests at heart. The government has shown that they cannot be trusted and as always, the rest of us will suffer with either system in place. End result: The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, like always.

Personally, I think we have done a pretty bang up job of wasting money without UHC being in place. As far as Im concerned the End Result is happening already: The rich get richer while the poor get poorer. I also dont think the current healthcare system has "people's interests at heart" either. Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, price gouging, redundant services, medical waste, inappropriate services, over or underutilization of medical services ....... As far as I am concerned, there is no one size fits all but sooner rather than later I believe that UHC is going to here especially with the boomer generation population bust and the current healthcare and medicare system.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion