Why don't we talk much about these scenarios?

[Persephone Paige]

I have personally known one nurse who was attacked and killed in an intake facility. They found her body shoved up underneath the patient's bed.

I get that there are certain inherent risks when dealing with people, in general. I just think that when a nurse dies at the hands of a patient, it doesn't generate the same sympathy or shock. Why? People are people and some people are nuts, but all people are human.

Just wondering how it feels to other nurses when they read these type articles? Do you get angry, are you incredulous? Or do you just take that gamble everyday when you go to work? Would you fight back if you were being seriously attacked, are we even allowed to fight back? I know for myself, some of our Med-Surg patients are crazy but too sick to be transferred yet to the psych ward. And by sick, that could just mean infection, etc... These folks are still VERY mobile and capable of great harm. There are times when I've been afraid. And saying we have 'security' in these type situations is a joke. A nurse would be severely injured by the time security made it up to the floor. So, to think I am safe simply because I don't work in a psych ward or an intake facility isn't accurate.

Interested on different takes and safety strategies.

http://www.ksla.com/2019/04/15/baton-rouge-nurse-dies-days-after-attack-by-patient/?fbclid=IwAR2dpYzPC5_1wyTPyIPbJ_HGLEXdGCqh3yB1RRXEKqR9dW5BwfkVKmHwcb8

[morte, LPN, LVN]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 4:48 PM, Daisy4RN said:

I am sorry to say that I agree with you completely. I remember my first experience in the hospital setting in the early 70's. I was a Candy Stripper and we had one old lady (probably my age now haha) that sat at a desk in front of the long hallway they led to the patient rooms (no security at all). Visitors listened to what she said when she told them the rules etc. nobody screaming and flipping out because it was "their right" to do this/that. I used to go from room to room delivering jello, magazines etc and I don't remember the people acting as they do now (and I would remember bc it would have left an impression). People behave badly (to put it mildly) because they are allowed to get away with it and because they just don't care, this has been getting worse and worse over the years and I am afraid it will just continue.

LOL, I think you want one less P in stripper.....

[Lunah, MSN, RN]

I have and will do what it takes to defend myself. At least in Afghanistan I had a pistol, and I only had to pull it one time — there were some Afghans running up on my trauma bay door without being cleared at the compound gate (wanded, patted down, etc.); I directed them by yelling and with a knifehand to get behind the t-wall [concrete barrier], but they didn't listen until my 9mm was out.

The increase in violence sickens me, even more so since bringing a child into this world. Why are we no longer civil? I have to believe (want to believe) that the people perpetrating this violence aren't average, ordinary citizens, but I am probably (sadly) wrong. I am sad that my daughter will not know the upbringing I had where we played all day outside without fear.

I will fight hard (and fight dirty) if attacked. I am not playing when it comes to protecting myself and those dear to me, including coworkers if something goes down at the hospital.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

On 4/16/2019 at 5:07 PM, Persephone Paige said:

Would you fight back if you were being seriously attacked, are we even allowed to fight back?

Well, what do you mean "are we allowed to fight back"? What good does it do you to have employer approval if you are dead? Of course you defend yourself (if that is what you mean by "fight back"). If your employer were to fire you for defending yourself, well, at least you still have your life. Towing the company line at your physical peril makes zero sense.

Retaliatory violence is a whole different ball of wax. Defend yourself and no more and you should be on sound legal ground.

[Daisy4RN]

8 hours ago, morte said:

LOL, I think you want one less P in stripper.....

Well, no I actually meant what I wrote, ya know it was a volunteer position so we had to do something to make money (just kidding!!)

I have never been very good at spelling, always out pretty quick at spelling bees, lol

[brownbook]

I must be the most boring nurse in the most boring hospitals. Inspite of working 21 years in a county hospital. The remaining years in out patient surgery.

Although I'll admit once a young woman in ICU, for a very non-lethal suicide attempt, grabbed her finger nail file and pointed it at me. She was in bed, rails up, IV, etc. I did not feel threatened or fear for my life. Another time a patient going home was becoming agitated that we couldn't find his glasses. He was somewhat threatening, but fortunately there were several male anesthesiologists standing right there and he quickly backed down. These are my two whole experiences in my 36 years of nursing. Including floating to a locked psych unit.

I don't believe these have any direct association with nurses, hospitals, patients, or adminstration. Some people are emotionally ill or angry all the time. I've been yelled at over parking spaces or accidentally bumping someone's cart in the grocery store and felt just as threatened. But these are very rare also.

[Workitinurfava, BSN, RN]

4 hours ago, brownbook said:

I must be the most boring nurse in the most boring hospitals. Inspite of working 21 years in a county hospital. The remaining years in out patient surgery.

Although I'll admit once a young woman in ICU, for a very non-lethal suicide attempt, grabbed her finger nail file and pointed it at me. She was in bed, rails up, IV, etc. I did not feel threatened or fear for my life. Another time a patient going home was becoming agitated that we couldn't find his glasses. He was somewhat threatening, but fortunately there were several male anesthesiologists standing right there and he quickly backed down. These are my two whole experiences in my 36 years of nursing. Including floating to a locked psych unit.

I don't believe these have any direct association with nurses, hospitals, patients, or adminstration. Some people are emotionally ill or angry all the time. I've been yelled at over parking spaces or accidentally bumping someone's cart in the grocery store and felt just as threatened. But these are very rare also.

Fearing for your life can save your life.

[ocean.baby]

I felt far safer in corrections than in any hospital, nursing home, or psych hospital. The higher the security level of corrections, the safer you are.

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

If I were being attacked or saw a patient or coworker being attacked, you bet your sweet orifice that I'd do as much damage to assailant that I could until I could break free to get other help. Coworkers years ago allowed another coworker to get beat up by a patient at the nurses station, while they sat and watched (one of them did call security). They said they didn't want to get involved because they didn't want to get into trouble or possibly get hurt. I wondered what would have happened if he had gotten to one of them before security arrived. At the end of it, the injured nurse got to retire very nicely with lots of healthcare assistance-on the quiet, of course. She was never able to discuss the details of the agreement. This hospital had just acquired Magnet at that time, so they didn't want their rosy image ruined, even though many in the community knew both the nurse and the assailant

[Truth66]

The unfortunate reality is that Nurses are not respected at all. Whether it be their employers, patients, family members, unions, government officials, etc. Nurses who are assaulted are often blamed in some way for the assault. My former employer would often question the Nurse, "what was your approach?" or "what did you do to provoke the patient?" It was the classic, blame the victim that is often used else where in society.

My favourite incident was where the nurse manager was routinely blaming the nursing staff every time an elderly resident would assault them. The nurse manager would always ask "what was your approach?" Finally the staff banded together and put pressure on this nurse manager by insisting that she show them how it's done. So the nurse manager on a given morning went into that elderly resident's room to do her morning care. As expected that nurse manager got punched several times. When the nurse manager exited the residents room, her staff were standing in the hall way and almost all of them asked at the same time, "what was your approach?" That nurse manager started to change he tune quite abit after that.

Another unfortunate reality is that it's a question of who gets assaulted. If it's a regular staff nurse who gets assaulted, likely nothing will get done. However, if it was a nurse manager, physician, etc. who gets assaulted, there's a higher probability of action being taken