I am taking classes towards my BSN because like other nurses with a diploma or ADN I am being "forced" to return to school for my BSN. I have had my ADN for 9 years. My question is HOW is statistics, critical inquiry, and the other classes going to make me a better nurse? Isn't hands on training the best way to learn? I feel like they are requiring BSN now and in 10 years want MSN so that we wont need doctors working on the floors, because nurses will do their own orders!!
I am 42 y/o and rally don't want to do this, but I have a minimum of 23 years left of working and had to be forced to stay where I am due to not having a BSN. Sure they say we may be "grandfathered" in, but that limits us to stay put.
Anyone have any input on this, as to what am I going to learn getting my BSN and why the requirement now?
I suspect that the reason that BSN is not the mandatory point of entry is that employers remember the "shortage" of the 1990's.
It seems history has shown the RN labor force to be inversely proportional to the strength of the economy/ job market in general. When times are good, nurses leave their jobs to be SAHMs and/or can find more lucrative opportunities selling real estate, ect.
The RN workforce is also aging. It is suspected that a lot of nurses will start retiring soon.
Right now, the applicant pools are excessive so if employers want all BSN that is what they can get - but they know that can change in a short period of time.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Right now, the applicant pools are excessive so if employers want all BSN that is what they can get - but they know that can change in a short period of time.
I am not sure if we will ever have a excess of nurse jobs (never was a shortage as you point out) during my career. If we do I would take note of the hospitals that refuse to hire ADN RNs now and refuse to work for them if the situation ever changes.
"Applicant pools" meaning large numbers of applicants for most jobs. I agree there is no shortage. To my understanding, in the mid 1990's when the economy was good a lot of RNs quit nursing (combination of poor working conditions caused by HMO's and abundance of other opportunities) and this caught employers totally by surprise.
Maybe it would be _IF_ it exsisted. In reading this discussion I have not read anyone called for less education for nurses. Unless I missed something this seems like and unsubstantiated claim.
By stating that there are nurses calling for less education, I am speaking of those who state that having a 2-year degree is just fine, despite the fact that, nationwide, the trend is to get a 4-year degree. And saying that the course work in an RN-to-BSN program is just "busy work" is worrisome...
By stating that there are nurses calling for less education, I am speaking of those who state that having a 2-year degree is just fine, despite the fact that, nationwide, the trend is to get a 4-year degree. And saying that the course work in an RN-to-BSN program is just "busy work" is worrisome...
EXACTLY!!!!!! thank you for pointing this out. As much as I do despise school I am all for furthering my education. Especially if it can possibly enhance my nursing skills. But once again this is just me. Everyone is different. And everyone has different reasons on why they will or will not pursue the ever so popular BSN degree. If I was a veretran nurse with many many years under my belt I probably would not be so Inclined to going back to school. But since I am younger and times are changing and BSN is the trend and In order for me to secure employment especially in a hospital I need to do what I need to do. Once again this is just me.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
By stating that there are nurses calling for less education, I am speaking of those who state that having a 2-year degree is just fine, despite the fact that, nationwide, the trend is to get a 4-year degree
The trend towards degree inflation nationwide is not evidence that people entering nursing with an associates degree are not adequately, or well prepared to be nurses in today's health are environment. There are a number of other possible causes of degree inflation.
And saying that the course work in an RN-to-BSN program is just "busy work" is worrisome...
Not to me. What is worrisome to me is that, by and large, it is worse than busy work. What people like me have experienced when going through reputable state university BSN programs SAY about the courses if far less worrisome that the actual nature of the courses.
Because one finds the CURRENT courses to be, at best, busy work is not an indication that those same people would not be very supportive and excited about courses that actually furthered one's education, were meaningful, and resulted in improved practice and more knowledgeable nurses, rather than simply being a box to get checked.
It is interesting to me that anyone would be more concerned about what people's educated opinion on the subject would be, than on the actual quality of the programs of the programs. it's like it is perfectly OK to have a low quality product but not OK if anyone points out the low quality.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
By stating that there are nurses calling for less education, I am speaking of those who state that having a 2-year degree is just fine,
Well since in most (but not all) states an associates degree or dipiloma is the minimum education for RNs it appeared you were referring to people calling for less education, I assumed less than is currently acceptable. So it's not people calling for less education, it's people calling for the current education.
The trend towards degree inflation nationwide is not evidence that people entering nursing with an associates degree are not adequately or well prepared to be nurses in today's health are environment.[/quote']
Adequately prepared is one thing. Improved outcomes is another. There is evidence that hospitals with more baccalaureate-prepared have better outcomes, even when staffing ratios and hospital characteristics are controlled for. This certainly suggests that increasing education has a outcome impact. Most recent is from less than a year ago:
Blegen, M. A., Goode, C. J., Park, S. H., Vaughn, T., & Spetz, J. (2013). Baccalaureate Education in Nursing and Patient Outcomes. Journal of Nursing Administration, 43(2), 89-94.
After 2 years in case management and 4 in public health, I can confidently say I do notice a difference between ADN and BSN nurses. I've worked extensively with both. And sometimes noticed these differences WITHOUT knowing which degree they had - so it's not some "power of suggestion" thing!
The BSNs I've worked with have a more complete, critical way of assessing their patients holistically. They also know how to communicate with management and other members of the team in a more professional, polished way. They have a more in-depth, encompassing understanding of community resources, access to care and harm reduction, all crucial components of public health and population health. Most of all I see BSNs having a deeper comprehension of their many potential roles in caring for people - they aren't just fulfilling their job descriptions every day. They understand what they do every day can affect many others down the line, can affect policy and research, can affect change.
Many ADNs I have worked with are great at being nurses and completing tasks, and yes, thinking critically. But I have noticed a lack of that overarching knowledge of the true potential of what nursing can do. ADNs I've worked with have not been as creative, confident, polished and innovative as some of the BSNs I've worked with. PERIOD. It really shows in non-hospital/non-direct-patient care environments where independent thinking is the emphasis as opposed to directed action.
Before you ADNs jump into my diaper, remember I said this has been MY experience with MOST of the nurses I've worked with. Not ALL. Your experience might be different. But many of you work on floors and in direct care patient environments and I don't, so I just wanted to present that perspective.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Adequately prepared is one thing. Improved outcomes is another. There is evidence that hospitals with more baccalaureate-prepared have better outcomes, even when staffing ratios and hospital characteristics are controlled for. This certainly suggests that increasing education has a outcome impact. Most recent is from less than a year ago:
Blegen, M. A., Goode, C. J., Park, S. H., Vaughn, T., & Spetz, J. (2013). Baccalaureate Education in Nursing and Patient Outcomes. Journal of Nursing Administration, 43(2), 89-94.
I am unable to read the paper, only the abstract. It seems to me that hospitals with a higher percentage of BSN prepared nurses also have a lot of other things going for them. Does the paper show that it is in fact the higher percentage of BSN prepared RNs that result in the better outcomes?
After 2 years in case management and 4 in public health, I can confidently say I do notice a difference between ADN and BSN nurses. I've worked extensively with both. And sometimes noticed these differences WITHOUT knowing which degree they had - so it's not some "power of suggestion" thing!
The BSNs I've worked with have a more complete, critical way of assessing their patients holistically. They also know how to communicate with management and other members of the team in a more professional, polished way. They have a more in-depth, encompassing understanding of community resources, access to care and harm reduction, all crucial components of public health and population health. Most of all I see BSNs having a deeper comprehension of their many potential roles in caring for people - they aren't just fulfilling their job descriptions every day. They understand what they do every day can affect many others down the line, can affect policy and research, can affect change.
Many ADNs I have worked with are great at being nurses and completing tasks, and yes, thinking critically. But I have noticed a lack of that overarching knowledge of the true potential of what nursing can do. ADNs I've worked with have not been as creative, confident, polished and innovative as some of the BSNs I've worked with. PERIOD. It really shows in non-hospital/non-direct-patient care environments where independent thinking is the emphasis as opposed to directed action.
Before you ADNs jump into my diaper, remember I said this has been MY experience with MOST of the nurses I've worked with. Not ALL. Your experience might be different. But many of you work on floors and in direct care patient environments and I don't, so I just wanted to present that perspective.
ADN-BSN/PHN here. It's not clear from your post exactly what kind of care/services you provide in public health, as you talk about BSN's you've worked with having a "more complete critical way of assessing their patients wholistically" but then say later in your post that you don't work in a direct patient care environment. How do you and your colleagues assess your patients completely, critically, and wholistically, without direct patient contact?
One would hope that the public health nursing course BSN nurses will have taken would have provided some knowledge of public health nursing and community resources. What does "more complete critical way of assessing their patients wholistically mean?" In my ADN-BSN program some of the generic BSN students told me in their final semesters they had received hardly any clinical training and didn't feel prepared to be nurses. If I remember correctly the generic BSN students took the Advanced Health Assessment class along with the ADN-BSN students; it was a very good hands on assessment class, and I can see the benefits to public health nursing clients in the nurse utilizing that information in direct patient care situations.
Your post is patronising to ADN's who work in direct care settings as they use independent thinking and are not just robots being told what to do, who don't understand that their actions affect other people and have consequences. If BSN prepared nurses who work in public health are not just fulfilling their job descriptions daily, as you say, it appears you are implying that ADN nurses who work at the bedside/direct care are merely fulfilling their job descriptions daily.
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hope3456, ASN, RN
1,263 Posts
I suspect that the reason that BSN is not the mandatory point of entry is that employers remember the "shortage" of the 1990's.
It seems history has shown the RN labor force to be inversely proportional to the strength of the economy/ job market in general. When times are good, nurses leave their jobs to be SAHMs and/or can find more lucrative opportunities selling real estate, ect.
The RN workforce is also aging. It is suspected that a lot of nurses will start retiring soon.
Right now, the applicant pools are excessive so if employers want all BSN that is what they can get - but they know that can change in a short period of time.