Why is it so easy to get an LPN or ADN so easily riled up?

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This is based on a particular thread I just read. You went to school for your degree,check; you do a good job as any as applies to any other profession, check; you paid good money for this degree, check.

So, why on GOD's good earth, do you let your feathers get so easily ruffled by some people's comments? I seek only to understand.

yes i work under the direction of the rn. i said that. but not under their license.

god forbid, for example, an lpn gave way way too much insulin to the pt who went to shock and died. how is the rn supervisor responsible for the lpn actions? would the board take the supervisor's license away as well? even though he is only the "house" supervisor who oversees the whole ltc facility?

please give example(s) of how the rn can indeed go down with me?

in many cases you will probably sink by yourself, if you make a mistake. but the rn is responsible for making sure you are working under your scope and doing your job. if they ask you to do something beyond that scope, beyond your training, beyond your experience, they indeed are liable. and believe me it does happen. if the rn gives your direction and doesn't follow up on it, they can be liable if harm comes.

for example, there is a thread going on right now where a rn gave direction, the lpn ignored it. because the rn followed up, she would not be liable for the omission. but had the rn not looked later to see it was done and harm came to the patient, they would be liable too.

now i'm going by my state's scope, so i would check with your bon for more specifics.

maybe others can step in and explain better, because my brain is mush right now - studying for the rn-nclex. :eek:

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Specializes in LTC, Home Health.

Sure, I will step in and say something. These posts that are started with the intention to just stir up poop (and yes their is no other motive behind them) are old and played out way too often. I think whenever someone posts a question like this the first, and only, post should be do a search because their a million of them just like yours to answer your question.

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Specializes in Wound Care, LTC, Sub-Acute, Vents.

maybe others can step in and explain better, because my brain is mush right now - studying for the rn-nclex. :eek:

thanks. i agree with you.

good luck with the nlcex-rn. i should be in your shoes soon. can't wait. just have to finish up my last nursing exam + clinical with excelsior college.

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thanks. i agree with you.

good luck with the nlcex-rn. i should be in your shoes soon. can't wait. just have to finish up my last nursing exam + clinical with excelsior college.

wow..good luck. it isn't easy, but you can do it. i give credit to anyone that does excelsior. imho is is much harder than the traditional route. but i have worked with a few that did it that way and they made great rns.

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Specializes in Peds Homecare.

During my second year of nursing school our professor gave us a quiz. I breezed through the questions until I read the last one: "What is the first name of the woman who cleans the school?" Surely this was a joke. I had seen the cleaning woman several times, but how would I know her name? I handed in my paper, leaving the last question blank. Before the class ended, one student asked if the last question would count toward our grade. "Absolutely," the professor said. "In your careers, you will meet many people. All are significant. They deserve your attention and care, even if all you do is smile and say hello." I've never forgotten that lesson. I also learned her name was Dorothy. ~Joann C. Jones

:up:

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Specializes in Emergency Department.

It seems to me that many people confuse supervision with license. There is a difference

A license is an individual's legal permission to practice health care at a particular level based on one's education.

A license is not an umbrella for subordinates to work under. They each have their own license that dictates what skills they are allowed to perform. Individuals who work as CNAs, LPNs, RNs should realize that they each have a different level of education and responsibilities. It is not your duty to degrade each other based on educational achievements, because we all have a different story to tell about how we arrived where we are in our life. But we each have various levels of supervisors, managers, directors, or bosses, who are responsible for our supervision.

My main career is as a fire department paramedic, and as a Fire Officer. My secondary career is as a new RN with an associate degree.

As a paramedic, I am the highest licensed health care provider in my group of four medics on an engine company. The other three are basic EMTs. Just because I am a paramedic, does not relieve the EMTs of their responsibility on an emergency scene. The basic EMTs are required to practice within the legal bounds of their license, just as I am. However, because I have a higher level of training and education than the basic EMTs do, I am responsible for supervising their performance and issuing instructions.

As a fire officer, it is my job to supervise my crew. However, I also report to my Battalion Chief, who reports to the Fire Chief, who reports to the City Administrator, who reports to the Mayor, who reports to the citizens.

As an RN with an ADN degree, I may eventually be assigned the responsibility of supervising the performance of LPNs, and / or CNAs. But that does not mean they work under my RN license, just as I do not work under the license of a BSN nurse, or work under the license of a physician.

I have no problem acknowledging the education another individual has achieved, because all of life is a hierarchy. Health care is a hierarchy of CNA, RN with ADN, RN with BSN, Head Nurse, Nurse Manager, Hospital Administrator, Physician, Surgeon, Board of Directors, State Health Regulatory Commission, and the Federal Government.

WE ALL WANT TO FEEL SPECIAL, but we must also realize that there will always be someone more educated or more experienced than we are, and I am glad the world is filled with people smarter than I am. If not, we would be in a terrible mess

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Specializes in Emergency Department.
thanks. i agree with you.

good luck with the nlcex-rn. i should be in your shoes soon. can't wait. just have to finish up my last nursing exam + clinical with excelsior college.

excelsior college is how i obtained my rn. i just passed the nclex-rn ten days ago, so you most certainly can do it.

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Specializes in Mother-Baby, Rehab, Hospice, Memory Care.
Ok, but I'll go out on a limb and say that LPN's with a MS in another field are outliers and not the norm.

Would you feel better about the statement that LPN's have less education in nursing?

How about LVN/LPN's have a vocational education and training lasting usually 1-2 years and RNs have 2-4 years of education and training with associate or bachelor degrees. I think it is a little offensive to make a generalization that all LVNs have no college education or degrees. There are even diploma RN programs still out there. However I am not one to say LPNs and RNs are equal. I usually explain that LPNs do similar work to RNs but there are certain things that we can't do within our scope of practice and that RNs attend school a little longer to learn things more in depth.

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Specializes in Med/Surg.

Case in point?

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Specializes in Med/Surg.
Many LPNs who attended community college programs have associates degrees derived from their nursing program.

How do you figure this? Maybe it is different in other states, but here, LPN programs are most certainly not AD programs (not saying they're bad, they're just not). RN programs are ADN programs, so how could an LPN program be the equivalent degree? That makes no sense.

Yea, got sucked in. Backing back out, carry on. :)

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How do you figure this? Maybe it is different in other states, but here, LPN programs are most certainly not AD programs (not saying they're bad, they're just not). RN programs are ADN programs, so how could an LPN program be the equivalent degree? That makes no sense.

Yea, got sucked in. Backing back out, carry on. :)

Some LPN programs at community colleges are associate degree programs.

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How do you figure this? Maybe it is different in other states, but here, LPN programs are most certainly not AD programs (not saying they're bad, they're just not). RN programs are ADN programs, so how could an LPN program be the equivalent degree? That makes no sense.

Yea, got sucked in. Backing back out, carry on. :)

Some LPN programs are associate degree programs. Some offer LPNs the choice to graduate from the LPN school with a diploma or certificate without obtaining the degree. Others make finishing degree requirements mandatory. End result graduation from LPN school with associate degree for those who choose to complete the degree requirements. Nobody said they were getting the same degree as the RN who gets an associate degree as a result of their community college program. Two different degrees but both are associates degrees.

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