Why Do I Care?

When one new nurse jumps ship after just a few months, it's none of my business. When it becomes a pattern, it hurts everyone: management, the patients, the new grads themselves and (believe it or not) the crusty old bat tasked with precepting them. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

Why do I care that new nurses leave our unit after less than two years -- often after less than one year? Why do I care, when they're adults. They're going to have to live with the consequences of being out of work, or having a resume that reflects job hopping or never learning the basics of nursing because they never stay in one place long enough to be able to learn them. Why is it any of my business?

When one new nurse makes an ill-considered decision with consequences that she personally is going to have to live with, it's none of my business. No matter how much I like the new nurse, no matter how much I was looking forward to working with her when she was off orientation, it's really not my business. One of my orientees quit while I was off work with medical leave. Later, we met for lunch and she told me her reasons for leaving. "I know you like me, Ruby. But Mary (her other preceptor) didn't, and I was afraid I was going to get fired." When pressed, she had no reason for believing that Mary didn't like her, or that she was in danger of being fired. She was just anxious, and without me there to smooth the processes for her and alleviate her anxiety about how she was doing, she couldn't hack it. It probably reflects badly upon me that I was her lifeline and I hadn't managed to keep her expectations realistic. I was so disappointed -- but none of my business. My former orientee and I are now casual friends, meeting occasionally for lunch and conversation. I enjoy the relationship, but would have enjoyed it more if we still worked together.

When the majority of our new nurses leave in less than two years, that's a problem that affects all of us. The majority of nurses that come to our unit do so to get ICU experience for their CRNA school applications. We all know it, even if they don't announce it to the world on their first day (as many do.) Others come here because it looks good on their resume, or to get tuition reimbursement for their NP programs or because their SO is in residency here. Within their first month on the unit, most of our new nurses give us an approximate exit date that has nothing to do with our staffing, our patient population, how we are to work with as colleagues or anything else that has anything to do with anything other than their own goals. There may be a cure for that sort of thing, but not at the staff nurse level.

We have a 30 bed ICU, so our staff is large. That means that we are CONSTANTLY orienting new nurses, and because our core staff of seasoned nurses is finite, that means if you've been there for more than two years, you're going to be precepting. Of course that means that people who should NOT be precepting are forced to anyway. People who are lazy or poor teachers or difficult to get along with are foisted upon new grads as their preceptors -- which isn't good for anyone. But even those seasoned nurses who LOVE new staff and LOVE to teach get burned out with constant precepting.

Precepting is difficult. It's so much easier to just go in there and assess that patient yourself rather than teach a new nurse how to do an assessment, discuss her findings and how they differ with yours (if they do) and what potentially that could mean. It easier to give the dang meds yourself than to wait around while someone else laboriously checks them out of Pyxis, looks them up, considers whether they're appropriate to give right now given whatever else is going on, and then gives them or holds them and notifies the provider. If you're doing it right, precepting a new nurse is one of the most difficult challenges you'll ever have as a nurse.

Those of us who remain at the bedside, mostly do it because we love taking care of our patients. Precepting means that we aren't actually doing the work of taking care of our patients. We're teaching someone else to do it, holding their hands, providing feedback that is hopefully in a format they can understand and accept, documenting their progress and having meetings with management and other preceptors to keep tabs on how they're doing. We're not taking care of our patients, which is what we stayed at the bedside to do.

Constant turnover of new nurses means that we rarely get a break from precepting. And when after all of our hard work with a new nurse, that new nurse leaves as soon as she can, that's demoralizing. In some cases, when you've nurtured a new nurse and mentored them and you know they're the perfect fit for our unit, it's heartbreaking.

And then someone calls us mean and nasty, implies that we're just jealous of opportunities we haven't grasped for ourselves or says that the only reason we're against job hopping is because we're old dinosaurs who don't want anyone to have things better than we did. I have the job I wanted -- my dreaaaaaammmmm job. I'm happy with my life, with my job, with my colleagues. I'm exactly where I want to be. But I sure wish a few others would look a little harder, see what a great job this is and what a great place to work and stay awhile!

Specializes in ICU.
Huh? This is a post about people changing jobs too quickly for the OPs liking, as if it was a personal slight to do so. People change jobs! Maybe the hiring practices in her workplace need to be looked at rather than telling the newer nurses that its all their fault.

for christ's sake, where did the COB and NETY crap come from?

Could you translate COB and NETY into English. thanks.

Crusty old bats and nurses eat their young.

Could you translate COB and NETY into English. thanks.
Crusty Old Bat Nurses Eat Their Young
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
All I'm seeing in this post is, "I care because it makes my job more difficult." I really thought this was going to be about how patient care is made more difficult and potentially less safe by a nurse constantly being in charge of the patients and preceptees in a high-acuity environment, but it's all about how "demoralizing" and "heartbreaking" the job is for the seasoned nurses where you work.

Please -- if you have something to add about the subject of new nurses jumping ship immediately and how patient care is made potentially less safe, contribute it. I'd love to read it.

This happens in a lot of facilities even great ones and great units like the ones I have worked in. I have come to accept it as part of the job. Staying for more than 2 years seems to be the rarity and part of me thinks those who stay much longer are looked at with disdain or viewed as less ambitious (?) even by management. stagnant(?) Does anyone else get that feeling?

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
The common denominator is the unit, not the new grads. If there is high turnover rate, blame it on the unit, not the new nurses. Too many units treat their nurses like disposable crap, don't give their new nurses enough time in orientation, and don't provide a contract to give a person an incentive to stay at a job.

Until a contract is made between new grads and hospitals, I highly doubt anything can be done. I have had the opportunity to work at great facilities and awful ones. The great ones give new grads extensive orientation and tons of support and resources. At my clinicals a couple days ago, I was talking to a nurse who has worked at the unit for three years. Her orientation was sixteen weeks, but the hospital wouldn't hesitate to give a new nurse twenty or more weeks to ensure that she/he feels comfortable in his/her new role.

I would be FAR more inclined to stay at a job for AT LEAST three years if THEY invested in four, five months training and orienting to help me feel more comforable and secure versus two or three weeks of a crappy orientation and being thrown to the wolves and expected to know it all. The places with high turnover rates typically don't invest a lot in their new nurses. A three week orientation for a new grad isn't sufficient for even the smartest and brightest of the crop, much less for the average new grad.

That being said, if you are tired of orienting new grads, then talk to management and put your foot down. You are misplacing your anger and frustration. If your unit is losing new grad after new grad, there is something wrong on their end because I can assure you that not all of those new grads are racing to NP or CRNA school or even their dreeeaaammmm job.

Orientation for new grads in my unit is six months; more if we feel that the new grad would be a good fit for the unit and just need more time. It's the best orientation program I've seen in 35 years of nursing. We have nurse educators, classes, a simulation lab -- all the support and resources you could think of and some that would not have occurred to me. I don't know what more we as a unit could do to get new grads to stay . . . a contract has to occur above the unit level.

My frustration is not misplaced. It's not the institution or the unit I work on. It's the culture among new grads that say "I'll do what I want and it's no concern of yours," or "I'm going to do the best I can for MEEEE, and you're not my concern." I'm not saying all or even most new grads suscribe to that culture, but you see it here an awful lot.

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Crusty Old Bat Nurses Eat Their Young

​Nice try. It's "Crusty Old Bats" and "Nurses Eat Their Young."

Specializes in CCM, PHN.

Cheezus, what a lot of hand-wringing, ginned-up drama about what's essentially bad procedure & protocol on the part of the hospital management.

Ruby, I get that you really caaaaaaaaaaare about high turnover of new nurses and it brrrrrrrrrreaks your heart when good ones leave quickly. Sure, that sucks. But you seem a little obsessive about what's essentially a long-standing fact of nursing and our economy as it is today. Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement with you that the younger generation seem bafflingly nonchalant about many aspects of job security and seem to blithely make decisions purely based on their comfort levels. Yep. I hear ya.

But this constant moaning about the endless conveyor belt of preceptees who can't commit, and shatter your hardworking, idealistic soul over and over again, despite your grand and altruistic efforts to teeeeeeeeeeeach them what nursing is all about, and THEN following up with petulant, defensive blowback when anyone dares to ask why is this of such importance to you, not only makes you and your COB buddies look like judgmental nannies, it also gives an impression that you'd rather play the role of hapless, pious victim rather than modeling accountability.

Your two recent posts about this issue sound like a warped 45 of "Ballin' The Jack" played at 33 1/2. Seriously. I respect your COB status but I'm also an experienced nurse. If this new grad turnover problem is soooooooooooo heart shattering to your exhausted, giving, concerned soul, over and over, and impacting patient care. then for cat's sake, go to management. Do some impact studies. Gather data. Develop a retention plan. Hire a contract consultant. Use your COB status to role model ACTION to us younger nurses, not WHINING and playing helpless toady. Talk about reinforcing unfortunate stereotypes about nurses!

I want to hear about your plan of action to solve this problem. Tell us what steps you've taken, what works, doesn't work, might work. Use your wisdom and experience to be an agent of change. Wouldn't that be a little more constructive than essentially berating an entire generation of new nurses, insulting other people's choices, pretending you're powerless to your hospital's lack of contract practice, and being snappishly defensive to anyone who dares critically think about your posts? Come on, Ruby. I love your contributions to this board, but good lord. You seem bored.

Specializes in ICU.
Cheezus, what a lot of hand-wringing, ginned-up drama about what's essentially bad procedure & protocol on the part of the hospital management.

Ruby, I get that you really caaaaaaaaaaare about high turnover of new nurses and it brrrrrrrrrreaks your heart when good ones leave quickly. Sure, that sucks. But you seem a little obsessive about what's essentially a long-standing fact of nursing and our economy as it is today. Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement with you that the younger generation seem bafflingly nonchalant about many aspects of job security and seem to blithely make decisions purely based on their comfort levels. Yep. I hear ya.

But this constant moaning about the endless conveyor belt of preceptees who can't commit, and shatter your hardworking, idealistic soul over and over again, despite your grand and altruistic efforts to teeeeeeeeeeeach them what nursing is all about, and THEN following up with petulant, defensive blowback when anyone dares to ask why is this of such importance to you, not only makes you and your COB buddies look like judgmental nannies, it also gives an impression that you'd rather play the role of hapless, pious victim rather than modeling accountability.

Your two recent posts about this issue sound like a warped 45 of "Ballin' The Jack" played at 33 1/2. Seriously. I respect your COB status but I'm also an experienced nurse. If this new grad turnover problem is soooooooooooo heart shattering to your exhausted, giving, concerned soul, over and over, and impacting patient care. then for cat's sake, go to management. Do some impact studies. Gather data. Develop a retention plan. Hire a contract consultant. Use your COB status to role model ACTION to us younger nurses, not WHINING and playing helpless toady. Talk about reinforcing unfortunate stereotypes about nurses!

I want to hear about your plan of action to solve this problem. Tell us what steps you've taken, what works, doesn't work, might work. Use your wisdom and experience to be an agent of change. Wouldn't that be a little more constructive than essentially berating an entire generation of new nurses, insulting other people's choices, pretending you're powerless to your hospital's lack of contract practice, and being snappishly defensive to anyone who dares critically think about your posts? Come on, Ruby. I love your contributions to this board, but good lord. You seem bored.

I don't know who the hell you think you are but that was just cruel.

​Nice try. It's "Crusty Old Bats" and "Nurses Eat Their Young."
Nice try on what exactly?

The goal = Make the unit so awesome that nurses pile ten deep to fill out applications for a 1 in 50 shot at the job. Look to those who are doing it well and incorporate that culture. Replicate the format. Not rocket science.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Cheezus, what a lot of hand-wringing, ginned-up drama about what's essentially bad procedure & protocol on the part of the hospital management.

Ruby, I get that you really caaaaaaaaaaare about high turnover of new nurses and it brrrrrrrrrreaks your heart when good ones leave quickly. Sure, that sucks. But you seem a little obsessive about what's essentially a long-standing fact of nursing and our economy as it is today. Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement with you that the younger generation seem bafflingly nonchalant about many aspects of job security and seem to blithely make decisions purely based on their comfort levels. Yep. I hear ya.

But this constant moaning about the endless conveyor belt of preceptees who can't commit, and shatter your hardworking, idealistic soul over and over again, despite your grand and altruistic efforts to teeeeeeeeeeeach them what nursing is all about, and THEN following up with petulant, defensive blowback when anyone dares to ask why is this of such importance to you, not only makes you and your COB buddies look like judgmental nannies, it also gives an impression that you'd rather play the role of hapless, pious victim rather than modeling accountability.

Your two recent posts about this issue sound like a warped 45 of "Ballin' The Jack" played at 33 1/2. Seriously. I respect your COB status but I'm also an experienced nurse. If this new grad turnover problem is soooooooooooo heart shattering to your exhausted, giving, concerned soul, over and over, and impacting patient care. then for cat's sake, go to management. Do some impact studies. Gather data. Develop a retention plan. Hire a contract consultant. Use your COB status to role model ACTION to us younger nurses, not WHINING and playing helpless toady. Talk about reinforcing unfortunate stereotypes about nurses!

I want to hear about your plan of action to solve this problem. Tell us what steps you've taken, what works, doesn't work, might work. Use your wisdom and experience to be an agent of change. Wouldn't that be a little more constructive than essentially berating an entire generation of new nurses, insulting other people's choices, pretending you're powerless to your hospital's lack of contract practice, and being snappishly defensive to anyone who dares critically think about your posts? Come on, Ruby. I love your contributions to this board, but good lord. You seem bored.

Thank you for your input.