Why Do I Care?

When one new nurse jumps ship after just a few months, it's none of my business. When it becomes a pattern, it hurts everyone: management, the patients, the new grads themselves and (believe it or not) the crusty old bat tasked with precepting them. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

Why do I care that new nurses leave our unit after less than two years -- often after less than one year? Why do I care, when they're adults. They're going to have to live with the consequences of being out of work, or having a resume that reflects job hopping or never learning the basics of nursing because they never stay in one place long enough to be able to learn them. Why is it any of my business?

When one new nurse makes an ill-considered decision with consequences that she personally is going to have to live with, it's none of my business. No matter how much I like the new nurse, no matter how much I was looking forward to working with her when she was off orientation, it's really not my business. One of my orientees quit while I was off work with medical leave. Later, we met for lunch and she told me her reasons for leaving. "I know you like me, Ruby. But Mary (her other preceptor) didn't, and I was afraid I was going to get fired." When pressed, she had no reason for believing that Mary didn't like her, or that she was in danger of being fired. She was just anxious, and without me there to smooth the processes for her and alleviate her anxiety about how she was doing, she couldn't hack it. It probably reflects badly upon me that I was her lifeline and I hadn't managed to keep her expectations realistic. I was so disappointed -- but none of my business. My former orientee and I are now casual friends, meeting occasionally for lunch and conversation. I enjoy the relationship, but would have enjoyed it more if we still worked together.

When the majority of our new nurses leave in less than two years, that's a problem that affects all of us. The majority of nurses that come to our unit do so to get ICU experience for their CRNA school applications. We all know it, even if they don't announce it to the world on their first day (as many do.) Others come here because it looks good on their resume, or to get tuition reimbursement for their NP programs or because their SO is in residency here. Within their first month on the unit, most of our new nurses give us an approximate exit date that has nothing to do with our staffing, our patient population, how we are to work with as colleagues or anything else that has anything to do with anything other than their own goals. There may be a cure for that sort of thing, but not at the staff nurse level.

We have a 30 bed ICU, so our staff is large. That means that we are CONSTANTLY orienting new nurses, and because our core staff of seasoned nurses is finite, that means if you've been there for more than two years, you're going to be precepting. Of course that means that people who should NOT be precepting are forced to anyway. People who are lazy or poor teachers or difficult to get along with are foisted upon new grads as their preceptors -- which isn't good for anyone. But even those seasoned nurses who LOVE new staff and LOVE to teach get burned out with constant precepting.

Precepting is difficult. It's so much easier to just go in there and assess that patient yourself rather than teach a new nurse how to do an assessment, discuss her findings and how they differ with yours (if they do) and what potentially that could mean. It easier to give the dang meds yourself than to wait around while someone else laboriously checks them out of Pyxis, looks them up, considers whether they're appropriate to give right now given whatever else is going on, and then gives them or holds them and notifies the provider. If you're doing it right, precepting a new nurse is one of the most difficult challenges you'll ever have as a nurse.

Those of us who remain at the bedside, mostly do it because we love taking care of our patients. Precepting means that we aren't actually doing the work of taking care of our patients. We're teaching someone else to do it, holding their hands, providing feedback that is hopefully in a format they can understand and accept, documenting their progress and having meetings with management and other preceptors to keep tabs on how they're doing. We're not taking care of our patients, which is what we stayed at the bedside to do.

Constant turnover of new nurses means that we rarely get a break from precepting. And when after all of our hard work with a new nurse, that new nurse leaves as soon as she can, that's demoralizing. In some cases, when you've nurtured a new nurse and mentored them and you know they're the perfect fit for our unit, it's heartbreaking.

And then someone calls us mean and nasty, implies that we're just jealous of opportunities we haven't grasped for ourselves or says that the only reason we're against job hopping is because we're old dinosaurs who don't want anyone to have things better than we did. I have the job I wanted -- my dreaaaaaammmmm job. I'm happy with my life, with my job, with my colleagues. I'm exactly where I want to be. But I sure wish a few others would look a little harder, see what a great job this is and what a great place to work and stay awhile!

Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
So crusty old bats should care about making new nurses' jobs easier, by being super nice and supportive. But we shouldn't care when new nurses make the crusty old bats' jobs harder?
Huh? This is a post about people changing jobs too quickly for the OPs liking, as if it was a personal slight to do so. People change jobs! Maybe the hiring practices in her workplace need to be looked at rather than telling the newer nurses that its all their fault. where did the COB and NETY crap come from?
Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
What I get out of Ruby's post is that she is frustrated to be precepting nurses who are only in her ICU as a stepping stone to something else. Most are not there because they want to settle down in that unit. Precepting a continuous stream of nurses who are just passing through would be stressful; finding an orientee who would be a great team member only to see them move on would be disheartening.

Ok, fine, but you can't control someone else's career path and professional goals. She's harped on this subject ad infinitum--even going so far to point out what are acceptable reasons for leaving a job and what aren't. On this subject, I sit here and think, "What a waste of energy to try to change people she can't, but to not do anything that she can to stop the revolving door."

Specializes in LTC, ER, Med/Surg.

I don't think I want to be a CRNA, but I hope one day to be a NP. But, I want to become a seasoned nurse first. I hate changing jobs and if nurses are going to precept me once I get that license and take the time to show me the ropes, I would stay and not just for the experience, but because I would be so grateful for nurses with experience taking the time to show me the ropes in "real world nursing". Who knows, maybe I won't want to be come a NP, and I might just want to stay a nurse. Even if I stay a nurse, I would be 100% happy with that, as nursing is my passion. I'm in it for my patients and also for the fellow nurses I will be working with, not to just become a NP and forget about how being a nurse is. Not my style. I love nursing and what it's about, that's why I will be so happy once I am done with school and get my nursing license.

You guys rock, teaching/precepting is not easy. It takes a lot of time, patience, and dedication to do. Not the easiest thing to do when there is so much going on but other nurse still do it despite all the stressors, and in IMHO they do it to make nursing better, so the new nurses can be the great nurses that their preceptors (most of them anyways) are.

I feel for the nurses who just go on your unit for the experience to move on to CRNA school. It saddens me a lot, actually. You should become a nurse to care for people, not to jump to the next level of practice as soon as you can! It's an insult to the profession, as well as the nurses taking the time and energy to precept you. My mom has been an ICU nurse for almost 21 years, and never once did she want become a NP or CRNA. She did go from LVN to ADN-RN to BSN-RN. She may want to do management now, but she still works as a floor nurse and she always gladly precepts new nurses.

Nursing should NOT be about jumping to the next level of more advanced practice (such as RN to APN), it should be about providing care for those who need it and it should also be about providing support to your fellow nurses. We all need to support each other. Nurses are the most vital part of the healthcare system.

I took Ruby's post as being a response to all the people here who ask her "what do you care if I switch jobs a lot?" or ask "what business is it of yours?".

Experienced nurses care when new grads constantly come and go because it DOES affect them. Precepting is an added stress in an already stressful job. Constant precepting is a burden on the staff and likely unsafe in the long run for the patients.

Of course, I understand you gotta do what's best for you, career-wise. I left my first nursing job in less than a year for a much better one. But, experienced nurses have every right to complain about high turnover, seeing as it does affect them directly, and thus really is their business.

I just would like a job in a hospital on a busy med surg floor. No NP no CRNA. Jus a med surg floor. And MAYBE ICU. I was a job hopper my first year and QUICKLY learned the grass is not greener. So I can empathize with what the OP is stating. After being a nurse for 8yrs I dont know if I am a crusty old bat or not but sometimes I shure feel lik one.

Well now that I think about it....8yrs isnt long enuff to be considered "crusty" so I will jus think of my self as a dusty old bat.....lol heck idk.....im at work working this NOC shift suffering from insomnia....lol lol

Here's the thing. In my experience, management could care less. A number of units have everything so computerized, so scripted, that a traditional "bedside nurse" is down to checking checkboxes and stating "can I do anything else for you, I have the time!!"

For the assessment part of the equation, they would like experienced nurses to be able to continually show others how to do it, as critical thinking is the missing link. And to continue to hire new grads, it is still less expensive than what a seasoned nurse who has been with the facility multiple years makes. And unfortunetely, for some it is a "welllll we PAY you enough" mentality--therefore, you better work it.

It is tough to teach critical thinking. And can get frustrating. But it is crucial part of practice. What some newer nurses don't realize is that it takes time. And to leave shortly after orientation and one is not much better of a critical thinker than when they began.

We currently have high turnover. As someone who always trains the new staff it breaks my heart to see some go. Some I wish would have left sooner. I understand why they leave and even agree with their choices most if the time ( not that it matters, just that it makes sense). Most of the time they find something closer to home, shifts that fit their life better, more money, or they leave to be management elsewhere. I don't take offense and I certainly don't get upset at them. I am especially proud of those who continue their education and merely see us as a stepping stone. I'm not bitter or resentful to these Nurses, it's a shame others are.

Getting my RN license in my 40s has made me realize that I can't sit on my laurels and coast. I want to learn all I can and be the best nurse possible. I only worked on the floor for two years so I had my feet under me before moving to the ER. I see new things and learn lots every shift I am working. I depend on the seasoned nurses in my department to have my back while I am learning about all the nasty stuff coming through the doors. The medical floor I worked put me in charge of the unit after only being there one year. Luckily for me there were experienced nurses on the unit to help me learn how to be in charge of a unit and still take care of my patient load. I took my turn teaching new grads, and some even learned a thing or two from me. I do recall one in particular who knew everything before I had a chance to teach him, so I hope that where ever he is today, he hasn't killed anyone figuring out what he really doesn't know!!

I have no intention of getting more formal education and moving around jobs to find my dream job, but I hope to try different types of nursing before I am too old to do so. When I was hired, the interviewer asked me specifically what my goals were and where I wanted to be in 5 years. I was honest and told them that I wanted to do travel nursing eventually, but for the next 5 years I would like to get as much experience in their hospital which included floor and ER nursing. They hired me and told me that they appreciated my honesty. I have watched many new grads come and go in the last few years, and it is sad to know that this is the trend everywhere.

IMHO today's grads want to get a big paycheck and be just like the nurses you see on tv. I wish they had the work ethic that was around 50 years ago when you worked hard to get a job, and you worked harder to keep it!!

Specializes in Anesthesia, ICU, PCU.

Zzzzzzzzzz... are we still on this?

Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.

The common denominator is the unit, not the new grads. If there is high turnover rate, blame it on the unit, not the new nurses. Too many units treat their nurses like disposable crap, don't give their new nurses enough time in orientation, and don't provide a contract to give a person an incentive to stay at a job.

Until a contract is made between new grads and hospitals, I highly doubt anything can be done. I have had the opportunity to work at great facilities and awful ones. The great ones give new grads extensive orientation and tons of support and resources. At my clinicals a couple days ago, I was talking to a nurse who has worked at the unit for three years. Her orientation was sixteen weeks, but the hospital wouldn't hesitate to give a new nurse twenty or more weeks to ensure that she/he feels comfortable in his/her new role.

I would be FAR more inclined to stay at a job for AT LEAST three years if THEY invested in four, five months training and orienting to help me feel more comforable and secure versus two or three weeks of a crappy orientation and being thrown to the wolves and expected to know it all. The places with high turnover rates typically don't invest a lot in their new nurses. A three week orientation for a new grad isn't sufficient for even the smartest and brightest of the crop, much less for the average new grad.

That being said, if you are tired of orienting new grads, then talk to management and put your foot down. You are misplacing your anger and frustration. If your unit is losing new grad after new grad, there is something wrong on their end because I can assure you that not all of those new grads are racing to NP or CRNA school or even their dreeeaaammmm job.

I think the question Ruby Vee is answering here is one that she gets attacked with a lot. I personally am glad she cares enough to keep coming back and answering questions in an environment that is frequently hostile to her.

With that being said, I think the larger, underlying question is "What is causing this huge amount of turnover?" I don't think that anyone is realizing that keeping the same position for more than a year is no longer a given. Our society is so mobile and malleable these days that it is often hard NOT to change jobs every year or two.

I think the focus needs to change from the traditional five year plan to a two year plan. Because that is most likely all that employers are going to get out of their workers. Instead of bemoaning what is clearly a paradigm change, perhaps we should be looking at ways to streamline and standardize so we stop losing so much time to training. Just a thought.