Where do you go when you don't trust official data sources?

[10GaugeNeedles]

Been engaged in alot of discussion under the COVID heading. Got me thinking. I find myself not trusting published data. There's so much politicization of everything. The government agencies are simply not independent and they are the source of most information. They want compliance. Period. Why wouldn't they change the data to fit? They certainly could and they have before. They constantly put out demands and conflicting information over and over again. Masks are BS. They don't protect anything. they stop a cough. GREAT! But they push masks like they are vital to life. People are wearing their masks while jogging in the woods. seriously? What the foxtrot!!? 

I hear all colors of reports about anecdotal stories of people being hurt by the vaccines. Those stories don't even exist as far as official sources are concerned. Do I risk the vaccine hurting me or COVID hurting me? Neither is a good option. COVID is a crap shoot. but taking the vaccine is a conscious choice. People come out of COVID without a problem. people take the vaccine without a problem. Both sides are valid in my mind. but now they are forcing the vaccine by law. This isn't a clear situation. It's very muddy. vaccinated still get infected but the narrative is the vaccine is totally safe, effective, and mandatory and will save the world. How do we know the vaccine isn't driving mutation? If I can't trust the source, how the hell can I make an informed decision? The drug companies have a massive profit motive to avoid any bad press. did they really disclose all their data?

Every single positive case is counted as a case. Are vaccine injuries treated the same? How many people harmed by the vaccine are taken into account? There's no way to know. Positive case: Always assume regardless of symptoms. Vaccine injury claim: PROVE IT WITH AN AUTOPSY!! IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN THE VACCINE!! ITS PROBABLY SOMETHING ELSE!! HERE'S A REFERRAL NOW GET OUT OF MY OFFICE!! (Yes I'm being hyperbolic). Its a double standard and there's no way we can get a clear picture with a double standard like that. This whole thing is a mess. 

Does anyone else feel like they have found an unbiased source of information that someone who doesn't trust CDC, FDA, government bodies can turn to to make an informed decision? I'm tired of all the fighting and politicization. I just want unbiased information. If you are like me, what did you do to get a clear picture of this mess and come to a conclusion about vax vs avoid? I'm seriously frustrated. I don't want to add to the problem. But I also don't want to get vaccination injury which can be just as bad as anything I can get from (yes liberals, vaccine injury happens. deal with it). Sigh....tired. I hope this makes sense. Does anyone else feel like this? I hope I'm not the only one. 

[Kellyc920]

I don't necessarily think they are wrong, they very clearly state that the vaccine does not prevent getting covid and that it can help to lessen symptoms, which is fine if individuals want to risk. I don't understand why everyone is trying to mandate the vaccine, because if you can still contract and spread covid then herd immunity can't be true can it? This is where I don't trust people, and I have seen some vaccine injury stories. I wish that people could just be more kind to the people that do not want to get vaccinated. In school we are taught to be an advocate for what the patients feel is best for their body, yet in New York you have to have a vaccine to go into some public places, where I don't think the government should have the right to tell people what to do with their bodies. It is unfortunate that the country cannot just come together in a time like this, and instead people blame the pandemic on those not vaccinated like any person is at fault for this. 

[londonflo]

37 minutes ago, Kellyc920 said:

In school we are taught to be an advocate for what the patients feel is best for their body

Yes, we are also advocates for providing what their healthcare team feel is best for their body.  If the patient feels they know better than their providers, is there any reason to struggle with them, after you have provided the evidence-proven data that is recommended by a multidisciplinary team?

It can definably be a struggle... especially with diets. 

[londonflo]

48 minutes ago, Kellyc920 said:

This is where I don't trust people, and I have seen some vaccine injury stories.

These are 'stories' but not  scientifically  analyzed, data investigated facts.

50 minutes ago, Kellyc920 said:

yet in New York you have to have a vaccine to go into some public places, where I don't think the government should have the right to tell people what to do with their bodies.

Frankly I do not want to sit shoulder to shoulder with someone who has made the decision to not get vaccinated and is in actuality a ticking time bomb for acquiring and spreading the original covid or variants. 

[Kellyc920]

4 minutes ago, londonflo said:

Frankly I do not want to sit shoulder to shoulder with someone who has made the decision to not get vaccinated and is in actuality a ticking time bomb for acquiring and spreading the original covid or variants

But we have been sitting shoulder to shoulder with many people who believe for many reasons shouldn't be vaccinated against many other diseases. No one has ever banned those people from going into public spaces. People that have a religious belief against getting vaccines. Don't get me wrong, I am vaccinated and think that is the best option. People have different beliefs than you, I think we can inform them of the science and help them to understand. A lot of health care workers do not want to be vaccinated and they know the science. 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I think vaccine injury is a real thing just like with any medication or vaccine.  I think the latest stat is over 5 billion shots have been given.  Right now the benefits outweigh the risks.  

I'm against vaccine mandates but am okay with vaccine requirements.  I'm going on a vacation where vaccines are required.  The chances of getting and spreading covid is high but the odds of us getting seriously ill are in our favor. 

I have to trust the data coming from the CDC and John Hopkins and other medical sources that I've trusted in the past.  The figures coming out of Florida where I live are dreadful and I would think the government would rather cover them up to make us look good for tourists but I don't think they are.

 

[londonflo]

14 minutes ago, Kellyc920 said:

But we have been sitting shoulder to shoulder with many people who believe for many reasons shouldn't be vaccinated against many other diseases.

Covid is very contagious...that alone disputes your reasoning...Also vaccines for childhood illnesses are required in almost every state... Think about smallpox...it was eradicated by vaccination.

 

14 minutes ago, Kellyc920 said:

I think we can inform them of the science and help them to understand. A lot of health care workers do not want to be vaccinated and they know the science. 

I question their true understanding of the science or if they buy into the fake news conspiracy circulating. I think some people would argue gravity doesn't exist if a TV newscaster said it didn't.  A lot of people believe what they want to interpret. 

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

On 8/29/2021 at 10:37 AM, JKL33 said:

This is really unnecessary.

I have seen it myself and not infrequently. People driving alone in their cars with masks on, people out in nature with no one around them with their masks on.

Surely you are not advocating that we photograph these people and post such on a public message board.

Perhaps they are just used to wearing the masks and forget to take them off when they aren't strictly needed. Perhaps they don't want the hassle of taking them on and off. Perhaps they are just uncomfortable and wearing the mask when it isn't necessary makes them feel better. Or perhaps they do believe that passing by someone on a wide walking trail or in a sporificely populated parking lot is a grave risk. Who knows.

Regardless, calling for proof of said behavior is nonsense. The only reason to do so would be to insinuate that the poster is lying about something that is a common observation. We can all do without the gratuitous divisiveness.

Off topic, but in response to the quote:

I personally have become so used to wearing a mask that I have gotten into my car and forgot to take it off.

Someone I know who has severe allergies wears his mask outdoors because he found that his allergies effected him much less since he started wearing a mask and deduced that the mask helped reduce the allergens that caused his reactions.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

Regarding those vaccinated who get re-infected….One thing that has crossed my mind that I have not seen mentioned is the possibility of mishandling the vaccine storage, or mixing incorrectly etc leading to inadequate vaccination.  
We all know that nurses, delivery drivers etc make mistakes that often do not get noticed.  Failed refrigeration and any number of things that are not detected and cannot be measured.  Especially when you are overwhelmed with work, improperly trained or whatever the cause. Mistakes happen and we cannot account for those things.  My point is that possibly some of the number of failures in vaccine protection may be attributed to those factors.???

[toomuchbaloney]

8 minutes ago, BeenThere2012 said:

Regarding those vaccinated who get re-infected….One thing that has crossed my mind that I have not seen mentioned is the possibility of mishandling the vaccine storage, or mixing incorrectly etc leading to inadequate vaccination.  
We all know that nurses, delivery drivers etc make mistakes that often do not get noticed.  Failed refrigeration and any number of things that are not detected and cannot be measured.  Especially when you are overwhelmed with work, improperly trained or whatever the cause. Mistakes happen and we cannot account for those things.  My point is that possibly some of the number of failures in vaccine protection may be attributed to those factors.???

Possibly.  There certainly have been storage failures for varicella vaccines and subzero requirements. 

[NurseDebdeb]

On 9/1/2021 at 1:09 PM, RKM2021 said:

I also understand the CDC and most doctors recommend pregnant patients  get the vaccine. Pfizer's Q&A section... "While there have been no specific studies in these groups, there is no contraindication to receipt of the vaccine for pregnant or breastfeeding women.  Pregnant or breastfeeding women should discuss potential benefits and risks of vaccination with their healthcare provider."   Pfizer updated their fact sheet on August 23. Before their fact sheet states there were no studies done on pregnant women and they could not say if they were safe or not for pregnant women to take. I have this fact sheet still. 

 

Moderna was updated August 27 and states that if you are pregnant or breast feeding to discuss the vaccine with your doctor. I have the previous one from them as well that states no studies had been done on pregnant women and they could not state if the vaccine was safe or not for pregnant women. This was still up after the CDC was saying the vaccine was safe for pregnant use. And yes I still have the fact sheet that states the above. 

 

You have got the CDC telling you they are safe, but not disclosing no studies have been done for this group, and the vaccine makers were saying we can't say because no studies have been done in this group.

 

 

 

For a long time we have not had drug trials or studies on pregnant women. We have relied on retrospective data to keep our pregnant patients and babies healthy.  We use lots of medications and vaccines to protect them.

As a nurse in a very busy OB clinic we are relaying retrospective data to our patients to encourage vaccination. We are having serious discussions and giving out info from our trusted data source SMFM- The Society for Maternal Fetal Medicine.  We went from recommending the vaccine to our highest risk OBs (healthcare workers with direct pt care of Covid pts) when the vaccines first became available. Now we are encouraging all our OBs to become vaccinated. It's getting scarier for our pt population as the increase in stat c/sections for maternal respiratory crisis is soaring. There are literally no beds in my community.  We've had a pt loose her husband this week and another PP who is needing to be placed on a vent but refusing. We are getting very tired and weary. The thought that we might soon loose a pregnant patient from our clinic weighs heavy on us all.  

Covid_Vaccine_Info.V4FINAL.pdf

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

2 hours ago, BeenThere2012 said:

Off topic, but in response to the quote:

I personally have become so used to wearing a mask that I have gotten into my car and forgot to take it off.

Someone I know who has severe allergies wears his mask outdoors because he found that his allergies effected him much less since he started wearing a mask and deduced that the mask helped reduce the allergens that caused his reactions.

I often realize I have my mask on in the car after leaving the office. I have it on as I exit the building and and usually carrying something with my keys in hand, so I have no free hand to remove it. So I get in my car and leave, and then at some point realize I am still masked. Oops. 

And yes, when I am running, if the trail is crowded, I will slip a mask on out of courtesy to others. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:29 PM, NRSKarenRN said:

Info sources beyond CDC, WHO

1. Medical and Nursing professional journals that peer review articles like  New England Journal of Medicine, JAMA, AJN, AORN, OJIN-Online Journal of Issues in Nursing, American Nurse

2. Respected health care organizations + medical schools/universities: Mayo Clinic, John Hopkins, Penn Medicine, Stanford Health, Kaiser Family Foundation

3. Respected health websites  Medscape, 

4. Professional organizations: Institute of Medicine, AMA, ANA, Sigma Theta Tau, AACN

5. Other countries: International Council of Nursing, Royal College of Nursing, Australian College of Nursing

Validate information across several sources.

 

And there is probably no reason to go beyond anything you have listed.  That should keep anyone busy for hours.  There is never a need for a nurse to go to a news outlet for reliable medical information.