What's REALLY with the hospitals using Magnet as a cover for wanting BSN only nurses?

[foreverLaur]

I'm in an associate degree RN program. I have a previous BA in Psychology and just finished up my last two classes online to also get my BS in Business Administration. I have worked for over a year as a PCA at a local hospital and also work as a supplemental instruction leader to help incoming nursing students do better in their first and second quarters. Yet all the nursing recruiters at the hospitals I'm looking at say that without a BSN, none of that will matter and my odds of getting hired are slim to none since I am competing with 4 well respected BSN programs.When asked why, all the hospitals said it is a requirement for Magnet status. From what I can tell, the requirements in terms of degrees for Magnet status are:

1. The CNO must have at a minimum, a master's degree at the time of application. If the master's degree is not in nursing then either a baccalaureate degree or doctoral degree must be in nursing.

2. Effective 1/1/2011 - 75% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

3. Effective 1/1/2013 - 100% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

4. Effective 1/1/2013 - 100% of nurse leaders must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

By the AANC's definition, most nurses don't fall under any of these cateogories. A nurse leader is a nurse with line authority over multiple units that have RNs working clinically and those nurse leaders who are positioned on the organizational chart between the nurse manager and the CNO. A nurse manager is Registered Nurse with 24 hour/7day accountability for the overall supervision of all Registered Nurses and other healthcare providers in an inpatient or outpatient area. The Nurse Manager is typically responsible for recruitment and retention, performance review, and professional development; involved in the budget formulation and quality outcomes; and helps to plan for, organize and lead the delivery of nursing care for a designated patient care area.

There are NO requirements or recommendations stated for the vast majority of nurses - the ones doing the bedside care on a daily basis. So why are all the local hospitals hiding behind Magnet as their reason for only wanting to hire BSN nurses when that's not true at all?? I do plan to get my BSN and my MSN, but I need experience first and nobody will apparently hire me when I graduate! I also cannot afford a RN-BSN program without a job that will help me pay for it (all these hospitals offer tuition reimbursement for RN-BSN programs) because I am fresh out of undergraduate loans.

So what's the deal and what do us associate degree nurses do!?

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

I work at a Magnet Facility....it has improved our work conditions :) Also, within our hospital, to sit on many of the committees you must hold a BSN (research, quality, education, preceptor).

I love that!

[GM2RN]

You're not saying that to me are you, I hope not!? I was responding to the link with the bill about foreign over US nurses....I am a little high strung these days tho.....just checkin.

I don't think so. I was agreeing with wooh's post.

[BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN]

I didn't see anyone being unkind to you about this. I did, however, see a lot of people being honest. I personally do get tired of seeing so many new graduates so bitter and angry because things are not being handed to them the way things were to graduates 10 years ago. Oh well. Times change. Adapt with them. Nobody is entitled to free tuition or even a job. Right, wrong or indifferent, that is the world we live in. You made choices early in life that aren't serving you well now. You don't have to feel bad about that but you do have to accept it and live with the consequences. Something our society isn't very well versed in.

You touched in a very real issue here. And it isn't going to get any better, if this generation of patents does not change their style of patenting (and yes I am part of that generation, I have a 6th grader). Everyone is not a winner. It takes more than believing in yourself to reach your goals, and mommy and daddy can't buy your way out of everything.

[NoAverageLPN]

I don't think so. I was agreeing with wooh's post.

I agree with her post too!!!! I have no problem working spending my own money to get where I am going, one step at a time!

[Jenni811, RN]

No, its not a requirment to have your BSN to work bedside at a magnet hospital. but the way i was explained it was, it LOOKS better.

If a hospital were to say "all our nurses have their bachelors degree" it looks better than saying "50% of our nurses have their bachelors degree" because the average person does not know that bachelors and associates are no different.

[NoAverageLPN]

Perhaps I am just a chronic overachiever but I don't see why, situational and financial ASIDE, you wouldn't want to go on and get that education. I have had every intention since I started this journey into the wonderful world of nursing to obtain my MSN and specialize. There is so much more you can do with a BSN and MSN. Why limit yourself to a closed in positions with no advancement potential?? Maybe some don't have the drive that others do and I guess that is okay too. Different strokes, different folks. I felt an extreme sense of accomplishment and pride when I obtained my LPN license, and I feel even bigger sense working towards this ADN program (inches away I tell you ), I can't wait to have my RN and continue on my path!!!

[KJM-RN, BSN]

I am starting an ADN program in 1 week. I tried to get into the local state university so I would graduate with a BSN, but with a 4.0 and a year of volunteer at their hospital I was rejected. So I fell to my backup school, which is a community college, as I was not willing to have massive student loans upon graduation through a private university. I feel I will be a strong candidate for hire after graduation and plan to get the best grades and make connections throughout school. Although I can't forsee the future, I think what is most important is doing the best possible in school and focusing on extracurricular activities such as being a part of the student nurse association, volunteering at events, etc. Whenever I've looked at job postings, they say "BSN preferred", after I graduate with an ADN, I will still apply to those jobs. I wouldn't feel completely shunned due to this, I'm sure you will find a job. You may struggle finding a job even if you have graduated with your BSN, you just have to be diligent and show your compassion for the field. Even magnet hospitals around here, hire new grad ADN's, but they do say they prefer BSN.

[MissBrahmsRN]

It's not a dumb piece of paper. I worked my but off for it. And while I have no doubt that you worked hard as well for your AD, I do take exception to your comments. You have not completed your BSN, so don't run down something that you do not know everything about. I won't run down the MSN or DNP programs because I haven't been through that program! It offends me and I'm sure it will offend plenty of other great nurses!

P.S. I did spend plenty of time studying bedside nursing "things" like cardiophysiology as well as the rest of my classes!

i truly meant nothing personal. please know that. i know you worked hard for your degree we all did. i myself have 110+ college credits & i am certain you have way more, i think you need nearly 200 for a bachelors. i have spent a fair amount of time looking at different RN-BSN programs and the ones that i can afford (ie: not go into debt for years to come) have only management classes. my system does do reimbursement but not enough to cover the entire cost so cost is a large factor in the decision. I also dont think it's fair that the hospital systems dont pay BSN nurses a higher hourly wage, it only encourages people to get the ADN cause it's cheaper. i am thrilled you studied advanced cardiophysiology, which school did you get your BSN from, i would love to take that class, i have lots of critical cardio patients. none of my BSN coworkers studied that, and i am very interested. we've all spent time at work discussing our education and many of the BSNs were able to get their BS out of the gate because their parents were paying for it. if that had been my option i might have done that, but it wasnt. the "dumb piece of paper" comment is meant for me, meaning that to me, since i am already a bedside nurse then it's reduced it to just another piece of paper in my file, not something essential that i needed to get my license and start my career. my coworkers who are in RN-BSN programs are studying: Art History, Management of the Nursing Unit this term. they're not quite sure how it will make them better bedside nurses but they are going into debt for it anyhow...

perhaps the thing that needs to happen is the ADN programs need to morph into BSN programs so that the entry level is BS and the management level is MS like most other fields.

[Laurie52]

Is that like member envy?

I'm worn to a fray by all the emphasis on education over actual nursing competence. I have spent thousands on useless graduate courses that only serve to pat advanced degree nurses on the back. The magnet facilities where I have worked were no better than non-magnet when it comes to how they treated their nurses although the magnet facilities will fall over themselves to hire Elmer Fudd as a clnical leader provided he has a MSN and no nursing experience. The quality of nurses on the units are less experienced and of the mindset that their advanced education in some way negates the need to learn how to actual nurse. It is living hell for the experienced nurses left to toe the line on the floor when these new graduates are counted in the staffing pattern. In my experience in general ADN new graduates are far more competent and better to work with on the floor. I probably just need to join ANOTHER committee or maybe do a poster presentation, lol.

This entry level into practice discussion has been going on for over 40 years!! Nursing needs to wake up and smell the coffee. There is only one other professional discipline in health care that does not require a university based degree, and even that is changing. If nursing wants to be viewed by the public as a profession, then nurses need to start acting like it is a profession. The days are gone when just being a warm body at work is enough.

Yes, this means more than just showing up for your shift. It means being involved in committee work, ongoing education and being an advocate for nursing in your community. If all the posters who are upset with BSN programs channeled that energy into something more constructive think of all the changes that could happen. Instead of being angry at the hospitals that will only hire BSNs, maybe they need to channel that anger at the program they went to that didn't warn them about the paucity of jobs available after graduation.

Healthcare is becoming increasingly complex. More than ever critical thinking skills and life long learning is important. Even if I conceded that AD grads hit the floor with better basic nursing skills and better time management skills, I truely believe that a well rounded, university education will allow them to be better equiped to meet the ever changing challenges in health care.

[M.Nurse]

Let my try and explain it this way.

Life is hard. Finding a job is hard, no matter what job it is now. Even a local McDonald's in my area had 50 people apply for one cashier position. Yes, McDonald's.

In order to be successful in life you must be competitive in many ways. One of which just happens to be that "dumb piece of paper." While there might be numerous other qualities and experiences that are both desirable and of necessity, that piece of paper with the BSN on it allows you to be more competitive in getting your foot through the door.

Would I prefer to do my two years, have very little debt, if any, from school and go on to make a very nice salary? Of course! Path of least resistance. I have no dependents and so I can afford to spend a bit of extra money to get to where I would like to be, however the primary reason I am going for my BSN is what I stated before; To be competitive.

[RN1980]

there is only one discipline in healthcare that doesnt require a 4yr or university based degree besides nursing....who is it? really, only one?

[Nurse SMS, MSN, RN]

I can think of at least three - respiratory therapy, surgical technician and radiology technician. EMTs also, so that is four that immediately came to mind. There are probably more.

I don't think that really changes that it would be good for nursing all the way around to require a higher degree. Think about it - if everyone who is allowed to test for NCLEX comes from the same type of degree, and that type of degree is showing nurses hitting the floor with inadequate skill levels to function efficiently on the average out of school, then hospitals are going to start demanding that type of degree be better educated. The two strengths of the two degree programs will probably become more efficiently melded together. Or we will see better on-site training for new grads. One way or the other, it equates to nurses getting the education needed to be both more efficient out of school and posessing the educational roundness to have the potential for promotions as judged by current day medical business criteria and the foundation for advanced practice education. It would level the playing field.