Another I regret my decision to go into nursing thread. It's grown on me and I am very satisfied by what I do. However, it does not provide enough income for me to take care of my family. Not to even mention the horrible benefits that most places offer now.
I was having a discussion with a co-worker the other day and she was complaining that her husband had to install fire suppression sprinklers all weekend. However, she loved that he was making time and half for the job and shouldn't complain too much about it. Since she opened the door wide open, me, "so, if you don't mind me asking, what's time and half?" Her response, "well, he only clears $84 an hour after they take out for his retirement and benefits." As I stare blankly at her in disbelief, her response, "but he works really hard and it's an important job." Additional details, no formal education beyond high school for the job, but he did go through an apprentice program for two years. He's in a union and averages about $60 - 75 an hour, depending on the job.
The belief that what we do is somehow less important than installing sprinklers is a major reason why nursing is in its present state. Not only does my co-worker, a nurse, believe that it is justified, but society is saying that this skill is more valuable than caring for our sick people. This sentiment is rampant on AN as well and will be defended with snarky comments like, "don't let the door hit you on the way out."
It's too bad and obviously not going to change in the near future. With nursing being overwhelmingly female, a major contributing factor is that women do not know their worth. New studies indicate that most people are happy with earning between $70k and $80k. More than this doesn't necessarily make you any happier and less doesn't allow you to be your happiest.
Yes, I do make slightly more than the "happy" range with minimal overtime. Yes, I am very confident that I can install sprinklers and my co-worker stated that her husband "doesn't have the book smarts to do anything else." Meaning he could not do our job, but I'm confident that the vast majority of nurses could install sprinklers. She mentioned that she was concerned that he's getting older and it's getting more difficult for him to climb around in the ceiling. I'm relatively young and can not imagine being able to do all that's required as a bedside nurse when I'm in my later 40s or older.
I have many immediate and extended family members who are nurses and live all over the U.S. and are in many different specialties and settings. Most of them have been in nursing for over 10 years and they more or less echo my feelings. They also did their best to dissuade me from pursing nursing as a career. Wish I would have paid more attention to them and took their advice.
Unions create issues for the workplace, but a major advantage is fair and equal pay. Most Canadian facilities are unionized, and those that are not, the wages are comparable. Nurses make 30-50 an hour, based on years of experience.
Unions are the only way nurses are paid good wages and ensured reasonable working conditions. Without them, employers can and will do as they please.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Not sure what bothers you more, that I am a male or that I am a nurse?
A little unsolicited advice for you, step back, breathe, and self-reflect. I don't believe you realize that your online persona is abrasive, rude, and arrogant. You don't really add anything constructive or beneficial to the discussion and quite frankly you seem to get off on being a contrarian. Your attitude and defense of our working conditions comes of as a it's not broke (for you), why fix it attitude.
Congratulations on outing me about not being happy with the overall state of nursing. Yes, I've worked several different jobs in the last three years. Primary reason why, local hospitals would not hire me as a new graduate in the Philadelphia area. I didn't whine or complain and my first job was 5 hours away from where I live. It was at a rural hospital where I was the only male nurse on any shift for the unit. My wife was working at the time and I would pay for a cheap hotel and do three 12s to get experience. Second job was little better, 2.5 hours away, they paid a little more, and it was a specialty that was more interesting.
In those 3 years I've been sexually harassed by a female CNA and told by HR and the manager that "she's the glue that holds the shift together." At a job that was only an hour from home I was sexually harassed by a male administrator and told by HR, "are you sure nursing is for you?" A supervisor told me that it's well known and the last three males that reported him were fired within a month. I struggled with pursing a lawsuit and for various reasons did not. I was lucky enough to find another job, my current position, within a week and overall I'm happy. Anonymous strangers telling me to leave or question if nursing is for me doesn't mean a whole lot at this point.
Statements such as there are too many nurses, supply and demand, etc., are just excuses and resistance to the change that's needed. Obviously an individual can not do this on their own and it won't change if all administration, the public, and government is hearing is our defense of the current conditions.
I've been debating on doing something more formal for several months and will be pursing something more than discussions on AN. It's a great forum and allows us to vent and is an invaluable resource for nurses. My first attempt at soliciting opinions was clumsy and crude and I tweaked my approach a lot with this thread. I am hoping to have an online presence that will in no way compete or conflict with AN in the next several months.
Thanks...
Abrasive, rude and arrogant. Contrarian and whining, too. Pot, meet Kettle.
Statements such as there are too many nurses, supply and demand, etc., are just excuses and resistance to the change that's needed. Obviously an individual can not do this on their own and it won't change if all administration, the public, and government is hearing is our defense of the current conditions.
Supply and demand isn't an excuse for anything, it's a valid explanation for one of the reasons why nursing salaries are on the low end of middle class wages. It's not only nurses that are being affected...while there is definitely a glut of new grad nurses, there is also a glut of college grads in general.
For example...one of my best friends from college is an attorney, she makes maybe 2k more than I do, and she's been at that job for over four years. It took her over a year to find that job, and after she got hired she found out that there are over 100 applications for every position.
Similar story with my engineer brother in law. He makes more money, but says raises are very seldom and tiny, and attributes part of the reason to how easily he can be replaced these days.
Sounds like being a water sprinkler expert is where it's at.
This is very well said... Hospital administration feels we are replaceable.... Experience and education means nothing....
I'm a good nurse and I do good work for them so why don't I get market raises and compensation for higher education and certification? Or I get something insulting like 1% of my base rate...
Meanwhile I'm babysitting doctors... Telling them what should be ordered.... They try to rush off the phone and I have to tell them not to hang up on me because I'm not finished discussing the patient... They mark all of the patients home medications without even looking.... Metoprolol for someone who has a pressure of 60/40???? Really?
and on top of all the technical knowledge and skills we possess we are spit on, peed and pooped on..... We works long hours without eating, drinking, using the bathroom..... And we have to continually add to our knowledge base.... If we don't chart this the government won't pay.... You need to learn new equipment and new charting systems.... Your education needs to be updated and you must talk to customers using a script and thank them for letting you take care of them.... All of which we comply with so they can make money.
but we don't deserve to be compensated because we should be satisfied with the way things are? At least we have a good job? So what if all of a sudden hospitals decide to pay less???? Or hire new grads for less and weed the experienced nurses out? Can we complain then? Why can't I say I'm worth more than what I make? i can honestly say I still love my job... But I'm a good nurse.... I have a good education and a good degree.... I have years of experience.... Why don't I get raises like my husband does every year?
I don't know why so many people disagree with the OP... That's probably part of the problem.
It's all about what you value. If you value money, then nursing likely isn't the field for you as there's plenty of jobs that make more money.
Before I went to college and got my BSN, I was a general manager for 9 years for a small business. I managed operations incuding 70-90 people. I made more money than I make now.
I'm happier now because I feel like I'm making more of a personal impact in people's lives which makes my job more enjoyable. I value that over money.
The problem with valuing money is you have plenty of competition in such a materialistic society which leads to a larger margin of failure.
We ALL value money.It's necessary for survival, otherwise we would be doing this for free!
I became a nurse with the idealistic notion of " making a personal impact" Since then , I've learned the impact I am making is ...on the corporate bottom dollar.
Health care is a commodity and we are slaves to the corporation. Agree 100% with the OP. We are NOT valued as much as the union broom pusher, a major cause of this is it is a FEMALE profession.
Specializes in Orthopedic, LTC, STR, Med-Surg, Tele.
I'm so sick of these threads, complaining about not getting paid enough. I think my job is frustrating and exasperating sometimes, my assignment is too heavy, my patient or that doctor didn't ask how MY day was going, charting takes forever. But you know what? I'm still getting paid.I'm getting paid a lot for an associate's degree nurse. I am not volunteering my time and I'm not some benevolent saint. So you don't make as much money as some rando. I bet you make a lot more money than a lot of other people do.
I'm so sick of these threads, complaining about not getting paid enough. I think my job is frustrating and exasperating sometimes, my assignment is too heavy, my patient or that doctor didn't ask how MY day was going, charting takes forever. But you know what? I'm still getting paid.I'm getting paid a lot for an associate's degree nurse. I am not volunteering my time and I'm not some benevolent saint. So you don't make as much money as some rando. I bet you make a lot more money than a lot of other people do.
You make excellent points. I am very thankful that I have a job because I take care of so many with no job who have been looking for a long time and others trying to live on $700 disability a month. In these times we are blessed to have good jobs, imo.
Graduation after July 1, 2015 - Starting Salary is $ 57,251
Graduation after July 1, 2016 - Starting Salary is $ 58,962 *Overtime pay and shift differential are paid as applicable.
Additional Benefits & Information
Troopers are granted an annual clothing allowance of $600* for clothing maintenance.
Troopers earn 10* vacation days during their first year of employment and then 15 days of vacation beginning with theit second year of employment.
Troopers earn 15* sick days per calendar year.
Troopers receive 12* paid holidays and four personal days per calendar year.
Upon graduation and promotion to the rank of Trooper, members and their dependents are eligible for Health Care Program, Dental Care Program, Vision Care Plan, Prescription Drug Program, and a Health Reimbursement Account. The Commonwealth pays the entire cost of all coverage for the Trooper and their eligible family members.
and do you know how hard it is to get into the State Police Academy in PA? 2-3 year waiting list. Local cops make approximately $10-$15 an hour. One of the nurses I work with was a local cop. Most of those officers have to work in 2 or 3 different townships or boroughs(because most of those jobs are part time) and/or work as a security guard at a mall etc just to get by. Troopers are Commonwealth employees - they are paid like other Commonwealth employees - very well.
Graduation after July 1, 2015 - Starting Salary is $ 57,251
Graduation after July 1, 2016 - Starting Salary is $ 58,962 *Overtime pay and shift differential are paid as applicable.
Additional Benefits & Information
Troopers are granted an annual clothing allowance of $600* for clothing maintenance.
Troopers earn 10* vacation days during their first year of employment and then 15 days of vacation beginning with theit second year of employment.
Troopers earn 15* sick days per calendar year.
Troopers receive 12* paid holidays and four personal days per calendar year.
Upon graduation and promotion to the rank of Trooper, members and their dependents are eligible for Health Care Program, Dental Care Program, Vision Care Plan, Prescription Drug Program, and a Health Reimbursement Account. The Commonwealth pays the entire cost of all coverage for the Trooper and their eligible family members.
Most new RNs across the country can expect to make similar wages. The benefits and vacation time are the perks that come with government employment. Nurses who work for state governments get oddles of vacation time and sick days, too.
I love what I do. I get great satisfaction from my job and by taking care of others and that I feel I get paid well for it. I used to be in a career that was union, great benefits, guaranteed pay raises, etc. I was miserable doing the job, hated it. People thought I was crazy for leaving, but I know it was right for me. There is so much more that goes into why to choose a job than how much they pay you.
My husband is in a much different field than me and far out earns me. Is his job more "important", no. Does he have a college education? No. The industry he is involved in is a big money maker and his salary reflects that because of what he knows and has done. Knowledge is not always measured by a piece of paper. I have a bachelors in a different area than nursing, I know they blew a lot of sunshine up my butt about how special you are when you hold a BS in any subject.... it really is a bunch of BS. Trades people hold a lot of knowledge, work very hard, and earn every dime of their paychecks.
I roughly knew how much money I would make as a nurse, I would hope everyone would do that research before choosing a career. Any job should be chosen based not only on that, but also do you think you will enjoy the job. If it's all about how much money you make then no nursing isn't a good career choice. I personally would hate installing fire sprinklers, but I'm really happy there is someone out there that wants to.
You hit the nail on the head, Mom2boysRN. I completely agree with everything you said.
joanna73, BSN, RN
4,767 Posts
Unions create issues for the workplace, but a major advantage is fair and equal pay. Most Canadian facilities are unionized, and those that are not, the wages are comparable. Nurses make 30-50 an hour, based on years of experience.
Unions are the only way nurses are paid good wages and ensured reasonable working conditions. Without them, employers can and will do as they please.