What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 23, 2022

27 minutes ago, Beerman said:

A "transexual pioneer" gave an interesting interview overbthe weekend.

"A transsexual pioneer and human rights activist criticized modern trans activists and said children are facing "indoctrination."

Buck Angel, a 59-year-old with gender dysphoria who identified himself as "a transsexual man," told Fox News that when he began transitioning 30 years ago, there was a system and structure that ensured he was certain about his gender identity. He said that process, to children's detriment, has since deteriorated."

https://www.foxnews.com/health/transsexual-pioneer-criticizes-modern-trans-activists-indoctrinating-kids

I know of Buck Angel. I saw a documentary about him years ago where he talked about his transition, top surgery and hysterectomy (I think). He's also also well known in the Media industry.

He's not alone in being against puberty blockers and other methods of helping kids transition earlier than he did. He acknowledges that he knew he was trans as a child but thinks the best route is to make them wait because there's no going back once the transition begins. Fair enough, many people feel the same.

There was a discussion here on the medical/nursing forum side and it seemed most nurses on this forum were against them as well. People feel they are just too young to truly know they are transgendered and should wait until they are adults.

He says "This isn't a game, and it's not something I can pick or choose," Angel said. "Once you choose this life and do this what I did, there really is no turning back." Which kind of contradicts itself. Is being trans a choice or not.

Also, it's not like kids wake up one day and say "I'm not a boy and want to be a girl" and then go get puberty blocking hormones.

He also states that he acknowledges he isn't a biological man and I don't get that point. I imagine most transgendered people acknowledge they aren't biologically men or women they just want to be acknowledged as being the gender they transitioned to. Is he saying he wants to be called a woman and referred to as "she/her", does he go to women's bathrooms in public. Not getting that point.

The video isn't working for me but the article doesn't quote him saying indoctrination but he says "fast track".

I don't think that helping transgendered youth transition is "indoctrination'. I imagine a good deal of parents are not going to allow it, but those that do have given great thought to it and know their children.

toomuchbaloney · May 23, 2022

1 hour ago, Tweety said:

I know of Buck Angel. I saw a documentary about him years ago where he talked about his transition, top surgery and hysterectomy (I think). He's also also well known in the Media industry.

He's not alone in being against puberty blockers and other methods of helping kids transition earlier than he did. He acknowledges that he knew he was trans as a child but thinks the best route is to make them wait because there's no going back once the transition begins. Fair enough, many people feel the same.

There was a discussion here on the medical/nursing forum side and it seemed most nurses on this forum were against them as well. People feel they are just too young to truly know they are transgendered and should wait until they are adults.

He says "This isn't a game, and it's not something I can pick or choose," Angel said. "Once you choose this life and do this what I did, there really is no turning back." Which kind of contradicts itself. Is being trans a choice or not.

Also, it's not like kids wake up one day and say "I'm not a boy and want to be a girl" and then go get puberty blocking hormones.

He also states that he acknowledges he isn't a biological man and I don't get that point. I imagine most transgendered people acknowledge they aren't biologically men or women they just want to be acknowledged as being the gender they transitioned to. Is he saying he wants to be called a woman and referred to as "she/her", does he go to women's bathrooms in public. Not getting that point.

The video isn't working for me but the article doesn't quote him saying indoctrination but he says "fast track".

I don't think that helping transgendered youth transition is "indoctrination'. I imagine a good deal of parents are not going to allow it, but those that do have given great thought to it and know their children.

Well said.

subee, MSN, CRNA · May 23, 2022

13 hours ago, Justlookingfornow said:

It's totally bizarre. Skin color has nothing to do with how we behave, negative or positive.

It sets a very dangerous president to allow discrimination of any race. Even old white men(prefered target). As once it is tolorated for one group it makes it easier to do it to another then also easier to retaliate.

It really does go against the content of character not skin color value.

I know there are some here that probably believe you can't be racist to white people silliness and they can believe this as they wish. However allowing this also put the minorities at risk as well. Simular to the abortion restrictions, they couldn't even contemplate this as it goes against the rhetoric that white men are bad, to protect the very people they claimed to protect.

Please give me an example of "white men are bad" rhetoric and what that actually means.

Beerman, BSN · May 23, 2022

3 hours ago, Tweety said:

I know of Buck Angel. I saw a documentary about him years ago where he talked about his transition, top surgery and hysterectomy (I think). He's also also well known in the Media industry.

He's not alone in being against puberty blockers and other methods of helping kids transition earlier than he did. He acknowledges that he knew he was trans as a child but thinks the best route is to make them wait because there's no going back once the transition begins. Fair enough, many people feel the same.

There was a discussion here on the medical/nursing forum side and it seemed most nurses on this forum were against them as well. People feel they are just too young to truly know they are transgendered and should wait until they are adults.

He says "This isn't a game, and it's not something I can pick or choose," Angel said. "Once you choose this life and do this what I did, there really is no turning back." Which kind of contradicts itself. Is being trans a choice or not.

Also, it's not like kids wake up one day and say "I'm not a boy and want to be a girl" and then go get puberty blocking hormones.

He also states that he acknowledges he isn't a biological man and I don't get that point. I imagine most transgendered people acknowledge they aren't biologically men or women they just want to be acknowledged as being the gender they transitioned to. Is he saying he wants to be called a woman and referred to as "she/her", does he go to women's bathrooms in public. Not getting that point.

The video isn't working for me but the article doesn't quote him saying indoctrination but he says "fast track".

I don't think that helping transgendered youth transition is "indoctrination'. I imagine a good deal of parents are not going to allow it, but those that do have given great thought to it and know their children.

I think when he said " Once you choose this life, you can't go back" meant once you do the hormones and surgeries, you can't go back.

Yes, he did use the word "indoctrination. " Meaning, children are being told if you think you're trans, you are or you can be, and he doesn't think that is true in many cases.

His message is much clearer in the video.

Beerman, BSN · May 23, 2022

1 hour ago, subee said:

Please give me an example of "white men are bad" rhetoric and what that actually means.

Here's a couple recent quotes from you:

"Like I said, Republican men aren't crazy about minorities or women."......

"If you watched any hearings involving congress the past year, this sounds like a bunch of angry white men angry at some other angry white men."

nursej22, MSN, RN · May 23, 2022

4 hours ago, Tweety said:

I'm willing to say that I didn't know what redlining is. I like learning new things.

What's the connection between redlining and CRT?

Definition of redlining:

https://www.thebalance.com/definition-of-redlining-1798618

"The term has now become synonymous with the systemic tactics used by mortgage lenders to exclude people of color, typically Black Americans, even though the applicant may otherwise be eligible for loans."

https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits

"Though the bill helped white Americans prosper and accumulate wealth in the postwar years, it didn’t deliver on that promise for veterans of color. In fact, the wide disparity in the bill’s implementation ended up helping drive growing gaps in wealth, education and civil rights between white and Black Americans."

Combine this with the US government's actions to withhold benefits of the GI bill from black soldiers returning from war after WWII. Black soldiers were unable to qualify for college tuition or home loans, two actions that raised many out of poverty. My father went to college on the GI Bill.

And then, to allow white homeowners to reach their new suburban homes. freeways were put through traditionally black neighborhoods, displacing more than a million people.

https://www.history.com/news/interstate-highway-system-infrastructure-construction-segregation

Justlookingfornow · May 23, 2022

5 hours ago, Tweety said:

No, I don't want to get into ancient history and I don't always like talking about Trump. My main point was the people in that March were an example of white male anger.

Fair enough, and I did think twice before putting that up about Trump and actually looked it up first.

What Trump said "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves — and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You’re changing history. You’re changing culture. And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists — because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

He also said "There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones.”

Some people there were perhaps protesting the planned removal of the statue and they were good people. Perhaps it was a round about way of saying he supported the protest against taking down the statue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/05/08/very-fine-people-charlottesville-who-were-they-2/

I'm pretty sure there are studies about black men and violence. During our discussions here when the BLM protests were happening people talked about black on black violence. I remember hearing a rant from conservative pundit Candice Owens deflecting to some number about black on black violence. A poster here pointed out some study that black men commit more violence than white men.

So to answer your question, it really isn't all that difficult for me to believe that studies are done on race and violence.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

Interracial violence has to do with socioeconomics, geography and culture. It is not inherent in skin color. However violence can be attributed to all humans regardless of their skin color. I would never see a random black person and think they are violent, no more than I would see a white person and assume they are angry or racist..

What I was saying is you cannot asertain a negative trait by an individual's skin color.

23 minutes ago, nursej22 said:

Definition of redlining:

https://www.thebalance.com/definition-of-redlining-1798618

"The term has now become synonymous with the systemic tactics used by mortgage lenders to exclude people of color, typically Black Americans, even though the applicant may otherwise be eligible for loans."

https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits

"Though the bill helped white Americans prosper and accumulate wealth in the postwar years, it didn’t deliver on that promise for veterans of color. In fact, the wide disparity in the bill’s implementation ended up helping drive growing gaps in wealth, education and civil rights between white and Black Americans."

Combine this with the US government's actions to withhold benefits of the GI bill from black soldiers returning from war after WWII. Black soldiers were unable to qualify for college tuition or home loans, two actions that raised many out of poverty. My father went to college on the GI Bill.

And then, to allow white homeowners to reach their new suburban homes. freeways were put through traditionally black neighborhoods, displacing more than a million people.

https://www.history.com/news/interstate-highway-system-infrastructure-construction-segregation

Yes, redlining happened. I wasn't saying otherwise.

Justlookingfornow · May 23, 2022

2 hours ago, subee said:

Please give me an example of "white men are bad" rhetoric and what that actually means.

You can go back and look through these very threads. I've been just looking for a while now and have seen many references.

The idea that all white people are inherently racist by nature. Either implicitly or explicitly. That the republican party is full of old white racist men...... just look through the comments.

I also see negative racist comments about white people that I would imagine if reversed, would get someone banned for posting it. And so it should.

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 23, 2022

13 minutes ago, Justlookingfornow said:

What I was saying is you cannot asertain a negative trait by an individual's skin color.

I wasn't disagreeing with you but addressing this statement " Could you imagine if there were a study about black men and violence? "

It's a no brainer that you can not ascertain a negative trait by an individuals skin color.

But we do have a ways to go. No need to stick our head in the sand about what's going on around us.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/17/14945576/black-white-bodies-size-threat-study

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 23, 2022

1 hour ago, nursej22 said:

Definition of redlining:

https://www.thebalance.com/definition-of-redlining-1798618

"The term has now become synonymous with the systemic tactics used by mortgage lenders to exclude people of color, typically Black Americans, even though the applicant may otherwise be eligible for loans."

https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits

"Though the bill helped white Americans prosper and accumulate wealth in the postwar years, it didn’t deliver on that promise for veterans of color. In fact, the wide disparity in the bill’s implementation ended up helping drive growing gaps in wealth, education and civil rights between white and Black Americans."

Combine this with the US government's actions to withhold benefits of the GI bill from black soldiers returning from war after WWII. Black soldiers were unable to qualify for college tuition or home loans, two actions that raised many out of poverty. My father went to college on the GI Bill.

And then, to allow white homeowners to reach their new suburban homes. freeways were put through traditionally black neighborhoods, displacing more than a million people.

https://www.history.com/news/interstate-highway-system-infrastructure-construction-segregation

Thank you. I was able to look up the definition and learn something. I didn't quite make the connection to financial institutions and CRT. Not sure I do but I'll think about it. LOL

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 23, 2022

2 hours ago, Beerman said:

I think when he said " Once you choose this life, you can't go back" meant once you do the hormones and surgeries, you can't go back.

Yes, he did use the word "indoctrination. " Meaning, children are being told if you think you're trans, you are or you can be, and he doesn't think that is true in many cases.

His message is much clearer in the video.

Yes, I knew what he meant and that was part of his reasoning that young people shouldn't transition. From a hormonal perspective for adults, I think you can back up. But I don't know if once you stop puberty you can. Obviously he can't because he's had surgery. There have been numerous reports of people with gender issues that weren't resolved with a transition so they stopped and went back.

Validating a child's gender identity is not the same as indoctrination, so I don't agree with him there.

Obviously there are some children that are not transgendered but questioning, and maybe a select few are doing it for attention or other reasons. Studies I do believe show that many have other underlying psychological problems like depression and anxiety. Maybe he knows better but I'm still not sure I buy into the idea that someone questioning would be pressured and indoctrinated to become transgender and undergo treatment, especially when it seems to be the dominate position in society, medicine and perhaps education, to make them wait to transition because they are too young. I'm understanding of that idea.

That being said, for a true transgendered youth that knows themselves and has the support and understanding of their parents, has undergone the necessary counseling, I see no benefit in tormenting them by delaying transition if this is their decision.

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 23, 2022

To edit my post above, apparently puberty suppression is reversible. Follow up with people undergoing it does seem to be positive.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30112593/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-teens-become-happy-healthy-young-adults/

https://www.today.com/parents/parents/trans-teens-get-gender-affirming-hormones-are-healthier-happier-adults-rcna11988