What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

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Something to understand what nurses think about re the Current News and their opinions!

7 hours ago, Tweety said:

There's no good argument because all we're going to say is that is being done to stop voter fraud.

Never mind that most of those without government IDs, 20 million people, are minorities.  

 

I read a NPR interview a few weeks ago that said 3 million don't have IDs.  It was 7 or 8 years old, I believe,  but still..

Even if it's 20 million, the question I have is why?  How many truly are unable to obtain one?  Some, truly do have some circumstances that make it difficult.   They are the rare minority.  Let's figure out how to get their ID.

This is totally anectdotal.  I've been part of mobile vaccine clinics in different parts of the country over the last year, often in poorer areas of a city.  Most recently spent 3 months in a east coast city that has some of the poorest areas you'll see.  We don't routinly ask for IDs, but often a registration person will ask for one just to make getting names and addresses easier.

Everyone has a ID.  Or they say they left it at home.  No one has ever protested about having to provide one.

I've also read stories about how some groups of people feel "disenfranchised " by ID laws for voting.  "Feeling" disenfranchised doesn't mean it's wrong.  We all are inconvenienced by having to follow certain rules, laws, procedures in various parts of our lives.  Voting is a important right that we have as Americans.  Providing a ID protects your vote,  and mine.  Boo hoo if you aren't willing to go a little out of your way to be able to vote.  

Finally, since this started with a post about Texas, here is a list of everything accepted as a ID to vote.  Be sure to also see the supporting forms of ID accepted.

https://www.votetexas.gov/mobile/id-faqs.htm

7 hours ago, Tweety said:

 It's not a deliberate act to suppress the minority vote but to stop fraud.  Because evidently people without IDs are committing fraud I guess.  

So that's the trump card "it's to stop fraud".  End of discussion regardless of studies that show it impacts people of color.  That wasn't the intent, the intent was to fight fraud.

I'm not sure what you mean by all this.

No, it's not people without IDs commiting fraud.  If you don't have to provide a ID to vote, anyone can say they are whoever and submit a ballot in that person name.

 

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28 minutes ago, Beerman said:

I find all that to be believeable. 

This discussion was brought up by your post about the "restrictive" voting laws of Texas.  So, we'll stick with Texas, for now.  

Texas allows 11 days of early voting, plus election day itself.  Plus, you can vote by mail if you meet certain qualifications.

You seem to be under the impression that poor people and minorities are unable to manage their situation in life to take a few hours out of one day out of twelve to go vote.   How long should early voting be open for, so that the law is no longer considered "restrictive"?

I agree, that should not happen.  I'm under the impression that each county is in charge of polling locations.  I could be wrong, or maybe that's not the case everywhere.  Either way,  I'm skeptical that there are laws like what you say.  Maybe you could cite a law, from somewhere,  that limits polling places in poor districts?

I can't find any reference to an 11 day voting period being in Texas being the reason why there's voter suppression going on in Texas.

In regards to voter ID, the issue hasn't been that Texas requires some form of identification, that's a bit of a strawman argument you're making.  The issue in terms of ID was that Texas excluded certain forms of ID that were more likely to be used by minorities, working poor, etc and without making any argument that these forms of ID were not reliable ID.  It wasn't just veiled voter suppression, it was so egregious that not only did the state lose a lawsuit challenging the restrictions, but was required to pay court costs.  Texas faces $6.8 million legal tab for parties who challenged voter ID law | The Texas Tribune

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19 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

 I'm not sure where I referred to 11 days as being short term voting.

Because we were using TX as a example.   You said the new laws like short term duration voting was targeting certain demographics. What short term duration voting were you referring to?

19 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

Those states lack mail-in voting, except for limited absentee exceptions, due to opposition from Republicans

LOL...haha...those laws have been on the books for awhile.  Those states are histotically overwhelmingly Democratic and usually don't need Republican support to do anything. They have had plenty of opportunity to change.

You couldn't even keep a strait face typing that, could you?

19 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

Considering mail-in voting is best way to safeguard against fraud (according to the Trump administration's Department of Homeland Security) that wouldn't seem to be the reason, which leaves....

I'm not against mail-in voting, with some common sense safeguards.  Neither are most conservatives.

My objection is with Democrats claiming that the common sense safeguards as being comparable to Jim Crow laws.

 

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

Feb. 2012

Why Millions of Americans Have No Government ID : NPR
 

Quote

 

And it turns out that more than three million Americans actually don't own a government-issued picture ID. That's according to a recent study by New York University's Brennan Center for Justice....

...The most common form of government-issued ID are driver's licenses and so the people who are most unlikely to drive, as it is, is elderly, the poor, people who live in big cities, like African-Americans, especially young people, too, especially if they attend college. They may not have need for a car at the moment.

And then people who are in rural areas. The other challenge for them is they are not near the Department of Motor Vehicles offices, etc., etc. where you would get these IDs....

..talked with Rethel Frank(ph). She's 84 years old. She lives in Brokaw, Wisconsin, and she has an interesting story because she typifies what many seniors are experiencing. Many of them never had birth certificates to begin with, and if they did, they were incorrectly - their names were incorrectly put onto these documents. And if that's the case, then you're not going to get an ID. They will not accept discrepancies between your birth certificate and other forms of ID that you may have, like a Social Security card and those kinds of things....

 

I recently tried to get a REAL ID issued when drivers license renewed.  Would not accept as my birth certificate (maiden first and last name only), 1975 marriage certificate and current drivers license  ( both with first name, baptisimal middle name and married last name) were different.  Signed state certificate submitted by PA state representative to  birth registration bureau with check to have middle name added to birth certificate, only to have it returned with note needed to go before a Judge to have it amended.   SO no real ID for me as not paying for lawyer to go before judge for such simple issue. Can understand voter ID angst.

2016 Washington Post
Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

Quote

A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting. For example, residents can vote with their concealed-carry handgun licenses but not their state-issued student university IDs.

 

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22 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

 issue in terms of ID was that Texas excluded certain forms of ID that were more likely to be used by minorities, working poor, etc and without making any argument that these forms of ID were not reliable ID.  It wasn't just veiled voter suppression, it was so egregious that not only did the state lose a lawsuit challenging the restrictions, but was required to pay court costs.  Texas faces $6.8 million legal tab for parties who challenged voter ID law | The Texas Tribune

I'm not well informed on their laws of the past that your referred to lawsuit is about.  Nice job going back into history to try and support your argument. The controversy is all about the new laws.

In a reply above to Tweety, I linked to a website that has the current IDs accepted in Texas.

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10 minutes ago, NRSKarenRN said:

Feb. 2012

Why Millions of Americans Have No Government ID : NPR
 

I recently tried to get a REAL ID issued when drivers license renewed.  Would not accept as my birth certificate (maiden first and last name only), 1975 marriage certificate and current drivers license  ( both with first name, baptisimal middle name and married last name) were different.  Signed state certificate submitted by PA state representative to  birth registration bureau with check to have middle name added to birth certificate, only to have it returned with note needed to go before a Judge to have it amended.   SO no real ID for me as not paying for lawyer to go before judge for such simple issue. Can understand voter ID angst.

2016 Washington Post
Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

 

But, you've always been able to vote, right?

Three million don't have IDs.  How many are truly unable to get one?  That were the problem is.  Let's fix that. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Beerman said:

 SO no real ID for me as not paying for lawyer to go before judge for such simple issue. Can understand voter ID angst.

You don't need a lawyer.  They just want you to attest to all that  under oath.

That's all the lawyer help you need.  No charge.  You're welcome.

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17 minutes ago, Beerman said:

I'm not well informed on their laws of the past that your referred to lawsuit is about.  Nice job going back into history to try and support your argument. The controversy is all about the new laws.

In a reply above to Tweety, I linked to a website that has the current IDs accepted in Texas.

As the citations have outlined, the concerns about voter suppression are not limited to ID disagreement and have foundation in a known history of intentional voter suppression in the past.  There is no good reason to create obstacles to voting.  There has been no good reason provided to decrease the time or places available for voting. 

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23 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Because we were using TX as a example.   You said the new laws like short term duration voting was targeting certain demographics. What short term duration voting were you referring to?

The topic at the time wasn't limited to just Texas, I prefaced that with "generally".  There are still a number of states that have either single-day voting or single-day plus one weekend day.

25 minutes ago, Beerman said:

LOL...haha...those laws have been on the books for awhile.  Those states are histotically overwhelmingly Democratic and usually don't need Republican support to do anything. They have had plenty of opportunity to change.

You couldn't even keep a strait face typing that, could you?

While these states have Democrat simple majority in their legislatures, they don't have the required majority to make these changes.  In Connecticut for instance a 75% majority is required move forward in making changes to mail-in voting, they have a two-thirds majority not three-quarters.

27 minutes ago, Beerman said:

I'm not against mail-in voting, with some common sense safeguards.  Neither are most conservatives.

My objection is with Democrats claiming that the common sense safeguards as being comparable to Jim Crow laws.

 

I'm all for safeguards that are indicated by evidence, and I don't think the Jim Crow references are in any way accurate or appropriate.  But measures that are clearly only intended to impede supporters of your political opponents from voting are no small matter, its not just cheeky political maneuvering.  A healthy democracy is how we defend the premise of "we the people", anything that impedes voting makes us less than a full democracy, and that shouldn't be something we see as fine so long as it benefits our side.  

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10 hours ago, Beerman said:

I'm not sure what you mean by all this.

No, it's not people without IDs commiting fraud.  If you don't have to provide a ID to vote, anyone can say they are whoever and submit a ballot in that person name.

 

I can't remember where I got the 20 million number.  I think it was from Brennan.  But I don't know what the recent numbers are.  

The rest of the post is sarcastic.

Quote

Several surveys, though, show that the percentage of adult Americans lacking a government-issued photo ID would amount to millions of voters.

An ACLU fact sheet from May 2017 claims that 21 million Americans do not have a government-issued photo ID, citing a 2006 survey from the Brennan Center for Justice. About 11 percent of the 987 voting-age American citizens surveyed said that they did not have a current, unexpired government-issued photo ID. Eleven percent of the adult citizen population in the 2000 Census amounts to 21 million Americans

https://checkyourfact.com/2018/12/02/fact-check-millions-government-photo-id/

But I can agree that providing identification to vote is a good idea.  It's not that hard to get an ID and it is a very small portion of the population.

  Making the change to "government issued photo id" when there really isn't a problem with fraud by these people again makes me suspect of the agenda.  On the surface they get to say "we need to crack down on voter fraud and who gets to argue with that.  I suppose it helps them to sleep better at night that they are protecting the democratic process.

Quote

North Carolina judges struck down the state's latest photo voter identification law on Friday, agreeing with minority voters that Republicans rammed through rules tainted by racial bias as a way to remain in power.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-down-a-voter-id-law-they-say-discriminates-against-black-voter

Really, I've beat this issue to death because on the one hand most of the new voter laws around the country are ****** and a done deal and really not that big of deal on the surface.  Their motives were clearly political to me and not to protect fraud because fraud wasn't a big issue.  That the election was fraudulent was a big lie.  I'm beating a dead horse and that's all I'll say.

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8 hours ago, MunoRN said:

The topic at the time wasn't limited to just Texas, I prefaced that with "generally".  There are still a number of states that have either single-day voting or single-day plus one weekend day.

Including some Democrat states, such ad CT and NH.

8 hours ago, MunoRN said:

While these states have Democrat simple majority in their legislatures, they don't have the required majority to make these changes.  In Connecticut for instance a 75% majority is required move forward in making changes to mail-in voting, they have a two-thirds majority not three-quarters.

Did you really expect that I wouldn't question this?

It requireds 3/4 majority the first time it's introduced.  If it fails, it can go forward with a simple majority in the next two legislative sessions.  A bill to change state amendments to ease voting "restrictions" was put to the voters in 2014, and lost.  

"Connecticut voters defeated a constitutional amendment that would have authorized the state legislature to allow early voting in the state and remove the restrictions on absentee voting. Absentee voting is allowed for a limited number of reasons including "absence from the city or town of which they are inhabitants or because of sickness or physical disability or because the tenets of their religion forbid secular activity." The amendment was defeated by a margin of 52.03% to 47.97%."

https://ballotpedia.org/Connecticut_Allow_for_Early_Voting_Amendment_(2022)

CT overwhelmingly voted for Obama in 12, and Clinton in 16, btw.

So, when you claim Republicans are the problem, you are being wildly inaccurate.

There is another bill on the ballot this year.  I'm sure by now the mostly Democrat populace has fallen for racist rhetoric that others have, and it will pass.

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8 hours ago, MunoRN said:

I don't think the Jim Crow references are in any way accurate or appropriate.  But measures that are clearly only intended to impede supporters of your political opponents from voting are no small matter,

That's a nice way to put it.  I would say the Jim Crow references are flat out lies meant to stir emotions and cause division.  Unless you think Biden and others making those references are simply misinformed and uneducated?

You keep saying those measures are meant to impede the opposition, but you've failed to make the case.

 

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