What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

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Something to understand what nurses think about re the Current News and their opinions!

Specializes in Med-Surg.
1 hour ago, Beerman said:

If asked what the date 1/6 means to them, most of the country couldn't come up with something. 

I agree.

It's ugly, and we're not very good at looking deeply into our ugliness.  It was Americans (white ones) attacking America (our Capitol, our Democratic process).  Best to sweep this one to our unconscious with a "it was a legitimate protest (and it was, we have the right to protest, nothing more American than that), with just a few people committing violence...and what about the violence in BLM, don't you care about that...let's change the subject".

I also agree that some Democrats over exaggerated it (who can blame them) but I am disappointed that people don't think looking into deeply and honestly is important.  

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
1 hour ago, Beerman said:

You still didn't answer the question about how showing a ID or limiting early voting to 11 days is a targeted measure to suppress the vote of poor people and minorities.

There's no good argument because all we're going to say is that is being done to stop voter fraud.

Never mind that most of those without government IDs, 20 million people, are minorities.  

It's not a deliberate act to suppress the minority vote but to stop fraud.  Because evidently people without IDs are committing fraud I guess.  

So that's the trump card "it's to stop fraud".  End of discussion regardless of studies that show it impacts people of color.  That wasn't the intent, the intent was to fight fraud.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

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2 hours ago, Beerman said:

You still didn't answer the question about how showing a ID or limiting early voting to 11 days is a targeted measure to suppress the vote of poor people and minorities.

What we're left is, that your objection to the laws is that they aren't necessary.  Kind of ironic coming from someone who supports the Demicratic party.

But, anyway, I disagree but also understand that.  It's not a totally unreasonable argument.  Where your side goes off the rails is where they once again try to make the issue about targeting poor people and minorities. 

Poor people and minorities often work one or more jobs which include very little flexibility or discretionary time off.  They often spend more time in transit to their destinations because they have fewer transportation options that also may be unreliable. The working poor enjoy fewer options for child care.  In addition to limiting the time allowed for voting, some laws reduce the number of polling places in poor districts which makes it less likely that the working poor can wait for hours simply to exercise their right to vote.  

Re-examining all of that leaves us with a reality that the new laws impact voting accessibility for the working poor. It's, unfortunately, very common place for conservative Americans to be ambivalent about the voting rights of others, as you are in this thread.  That's dangerous for our republic. 

It seems to me that if new voting restrictions adversely affect poor communities and people of color it is important to state that, regardless of how uncomfortable that makes those who sympathise with the new laws and their justifications.

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2 hours ago, Beerman said:

I agree.  People have their own worries.  And, as often happens,  Democrats have overplayed their hand by comparing it to 9/11, Pearl Harbor,  and the holocaust.  Republicans aren't listening to them to begin with, and indendents stop listening to that kind of rhetoric. 

If asked what the date 1/6 means to them, most of the country couldn't come up with something. 

In the absence of a citation I'm going to chalk that up to partisan hyperbole and wishful thinking.  It is a shame, though, that so many Americans are so poorly informed about important matters. 

The only people that I have heard making ignorant comments about the Holocaust relative to current events are republican or conservative.  

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6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

 

Millions of Fox News, OANN and Newsmax devotees have no idea what the January 6th select committee is doing or reporting.  They won't get a whiff of that until the major news outlets are reporting on the public hearings and statements or evidence. Public sentiment about 0106 is likely going to get heated and more contentious as conservatives are confronted with realities that they are more comfortable ignoring. 

In the absence of a citation I'm going to chalk that up to partisan hyperbole and wishful thinking.

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3 hours ago, Beerman said:

In the absence of a citation I'm going to chalk that up to partisan hyperbole and wishful thinking.

You and Tweety indicated that 0106 wasn't on the radar of many Americans.  I gave a reason for that ignorance and disinterest. 

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/07/954562181/a-look-at-how-different-u-s-media-outlets-covered-the-pro-trump-riot-on-capitol-

https://www.prri.org/research/competing-visions-of-america-an-evolving-identity-or-a-culture-under-attack/

https://www.newsweek.com/82-fox-news-97-oann-newsmax-viewers-believe-trumps-stolen-election-claim-poll-1644756

 

 

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
43 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You and Tweety indicated that 0106 wasn't on the radar of many Americans.  I gave a reason for that ignorance and disinterest. 

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/07/954562181/a-look-at-how-different-u-s-media-outlets-covered-the-pro-trump-riot-on-capitol-

https://www.prri.org/research/competing-visions-of-america-an-evolving-identity-or-a-culture-under-attack/

https://www.newsweek.com/82-fox-news-97-oann-newsmax-viewers-believe-trumps-stolen-election-claim-poll-1644756

 

 

I think it's on our radar, but something we'd rather move past.  What is currently on our minds is inflation and covid fatigue.  Polls are showing Americans are less hopeful and more worried about the immediate future and who knows how much January 6th plays into that.  I think it really set the stage and then just one thing after another like Afghanistan, the supply chain problems, followed by inflation, followed by two more covid surges, anger at the unvaccinated, anger at vaccine mandates, followed by "the Great Resignation" and people running short staffed, and gas prices this week rising yet again, all has really has set the tone for the bad mood we're in.  But January 6th is starting to fade as a major issue.

https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn/hope-worry-2022

Speaking of covid, since we did discuss it here about the lockdowns.  Medscape took a look at it.  Mind you this is just one Yale Professor but worth a read.

Quote

Personally, I think the clearest argument for the efficacy of government mandates, at least in terms of curbing COVID mortality, is China, which has experienced 3.5 COVID deaths per million population compared with 2800 in the US. Obviously, I would never accept the extremity of lockdown that China's authoritarian regime has imposed, and I doubt that my fellow American citizens would either. But from a purely scientific standpoint, it's hard to argue that lockdown — in the extreme, at least — doesn't work.

The problem in the liberal democracies is that the infection rate, government mandates, and personal choices are all interrelated.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968401?uac=94896SX&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4019934&src=mkm_covid_update_220214_MSCPEDIT#vp_3

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1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You and Tweety indicated that 0106 wasn't on the radar of many Americans.  I gave a reason for that ignorance and disinterest. 

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/07/954562181/a-look-at-how-different-u-s-media-outlets-covered-the-pro-trump-riot-on-capitol-

https://www.prri.org/research/competing-visions-of-america-an-evolving-identity-or-a-culture-under-attack/

https://www.newsweek.com/82-fox-news-97-oann-newsmax-viewers-believe-trumps-stolen-election-claim-poll-1644756

 

 

Whatever the reasons, real ones and what you believe them to be, we are where we are.  To put it bluntly, most don't care about Jan 6.  

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42 minutes ago, Tweety said:

I think it's on our radar, but something we'd rather move past.  What is currently on our minds is inflation and covid fatigue.  Polls are showing Americans are less hopeful and more worried about the immediate future and who knows how much January 6th plays into that.  I think it really set the stage and then just one thing after another like Afghanistan, the supply chain problems, followed by inflation, followed by two more covid surges, anger at the unvaccinated, anger at vaccine mandates, followed by "the Great Resignation" and people running short staffed, and gas prices this week rising yet again, all has really has set the tone for the bad mood we're in.  But January 6th is starting to fade as a major issue.

https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn/hope-worry-2022

Speaking of covid, since we did discuss it here about the lockdowns.  Medscape took a look at it.  Mind you this is just one Yale Professor but worth a read.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968401?uac=94896SX&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4019934&src=mkm_covid_update_220214_MSCPEDIT#vp_3

We'd all like to move past January 6 but we cannot simply pretend like it wasn't an attempt to overthrow the election results and install Trump as president.  As the public hearings begin and the details of what happened are discussed in the media the polling about January 6 will change.  Republicans would love for January 6 to fade but Trump is never going to stop talking about how he was cheated out of a second term. 

 

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10 hours ago, Tweety said:

I think it's on our radar, but something we'd rather move past.  What is currently on our minds is inflation and covid fatigue.  Polls are showing Americans are less hopeful and more worried about the immediate future and who knows how much January 6th plays into that.  I think it really set the stage and then just one thing after another like Afghanistan, the supply chain problems, followed by inflation, followed by two more covid surges, anger at the unvaccinated, anger at vaccine mandates, followed by "the Great Resignation" and people running short staffed, and gas prices this week rising yet again, all has really has set the tone for the bad mood we're in.  But January 6th is starting to fade as a major issue.

https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn/hope-worry-2022

Speaking of covid, since we did discuss it here about the lockdowns.  Medscape took a look at it.  Mind you this is just one Yale Professor but worth a read.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968401?uac=94896SX&faf=1&sso=true&impID=4019934&src=mkm_covid_update_220214_MSCPEDIT#vp_3

Forgot the link

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2021-11-24/study-classifies-u-s-democracy-as-backsliding-for-the-first-time

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6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Poor people and minorities often work one or more jobs which include very little flexibility or discretionary time off.  They often spend more time in transit to their destinations because they have fewer transportation options that also may be unreliable. The working poor enjoy fewer options for child care. 

I find all that to be believeable. 

This discussion was brought up by your post about the "restrictive" voting laws of Texas.  So, we'll stick with Texas, for now.  

Texas allows 11 days of early voting, plus election day itself.  Plus, you can vote by mail if you meet certain qualifications.

You seem to be under the impression that poor people and minorities are unable to manage their situation in life to take a few hours out of one day out of twelve to go vote.   How long should early voting be open for, so that the law is no longer considered "restrictive"?

6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

 some laws reduce the number of polling places in poor districts which makes it less likely that the working poor can wait for hours simply to exercise their right to vote.  

I agree, that should not happen.  I'm under the impression that each county is in charge of polling locations.  I could be wrong, or maybe that's not the case everywhere.  Either way,  I'm skeptical that there are laws like what you say.  Maybe you could cite a law, from somewhere,  that limits polling places in poor districts?

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Specializes in Critical Care.
On 2/13/2022 at 8:01 PM, Beerman said:

It seems strange that you neglected to mention that.  Never the less, I stand corrected.

I would agree that it's harder for those in the demographics you mentioned to vote in person on election day, or "short duration voting".

Where I disagree is that 11 days of early voting, plus election day, is "short duration voting".

What would the right number of days be?

 

I'm not sure where I referred to 11 days as being short term voting.

I don't think how we avoid voter suppression would be based on any specific number of days.  It's based on whether there's avoidable limitations to people's ability to vote.  If a polling place that can handle 5,000 voters a day that serves 25,000 registered voters is open for 11 days, then no, that's not limiting voting access, if the same polling place can only handle 500 voters a day, then that would limiting voting access.  

On 2/13/2022 at 8:01 PM, Beerman said:

Why do you think states like NH, Connecticut,  and Delaware put restrictions on mail in voting on the first place?  To safeguard against fraud, or to make it harder for certain demographics to vote?

Those states lack mail-in voting, except for limited absentee exceptions, due to opposition from Republicans.

Considering mail-in voting is best way to safeguard against fraud (according to the Trump administration's Department of Homeland Security) that wouldn't seem to be the reason, which leaves....

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