What shall I do?

[Dayray]

I got yelled at by a Doc for the first time this past week.

Here is what happened. We were just out of report and I was headed down the hall to assess patients. Went past a room and the aid told me that the doctor had gone into my patients room. I wanted to go in because I usually make rounds with my doctors. The aid had been filling waters and asked me to take it in the room for the patient.

My hands were full, water in one, my notes, stethoscope and a med for the patient in the other. I walked in without knocking. When I got in the room the doctor was looking at the patient's feet and didn't see me. When she noticed me she yelled, "CANT YOU KNOCK?" I was caught off guard and really wasn't sure she was talking to me. She shouted again " I ASKED YOU CAN'T YOU KNOCK"

I didn't want to make a bigger scene in front of the patient but at the same time I didn't want to roll over and kiss her butt. I said (in a flat tone and calmly) "Well I suppose I could" and looked her in the eye (careful not to show any expression). The doctor glared at me and pointed to the door. I looked at her and she said "GET OUT" I said "I am her nurse" she said " I SAID GET OUT" I walked out and if it hadn't been for what happened next I would have just wrote it off.

As I walked out I heard the doctor saying something about

"Damn male nurses". I went back to the nurse's station and told my supervisor to expect the doctor to complain about me. The doctor went to my supervisor and said "that GUY! Walked in the room without knocking" my supervisor told her "we all need to work on that but he is her nurse not just some guy" The patient later requested a female nurse (the first time this has ever happened to me).

Some people have suggested I make an incident report so that I have documentation if it gets worse. I don't know if I should. To me it was obvious that the problem wasn't really my not knocking but my gender. If it weren't for that fact I wouldn't think of it but now I wonder if this is an indication of the way this doctor will treat me.

This was my first experience with this doctor. If she continues to tell her patients not to accept a male nurse it could really make my job hard not to mention that she would be giving male nurses a bad rap.

Just think of how the patient must have thought of me and male nurses in general. Her doctor (who I'm sure she trusts) protected her from the evil male nurse and then told her not to let male nurses care for her.

I'm not sure what to do. I hope that this doctor will get to know me and see that I'm a good nurse. However, if she keeps treating me like this and telling people not to let me be their nurse or tries hard enough to make trouble for me Id like to have as much documentation as possible.

[alwaysthere]

If you do pull her aside without writing her up or without other official acknowledgement then she can say you said something that you did not...Plz. Put this on paper first!

[SharonH, RN]

Be sure to let us know how it turned out!

[l.rae]

Originally posted by WashYaHands

I think if I were in this situation, although I'm not a male, I'd write an incident report. "Damn male nurses" is a sexist comment and this doctor needs to know it won't be tolerated. If she keeps making these comments, keep writing her up until she realizes she's out of line.

Linda

l would definately write her up for sexual harassment AND gender based discrimination.......DO IT....please!...use her own words and quotes.....good luck...let us know what happens....LR

[mario_ragucci]

Male nurses and female drivers...(chuckle)

You really ought to not ditty-bop into any PT room. I knock and pause a quarter of a second, even if they are expecting me. If I hafta be quick, like if there are a ga-zillion other PT needs going, I will always at least announce my pressence and look out the window until I notice the patient notices me, then I smile.

You don't want to get into a turf battle/war with a doctor.

I'd be crushed if a female doctor told me to leave my patient. I can only count on one hand the number of doctors I have actually successfully made eye contact with. Doctors and non-caregivers usually travel in white packs, and don't spend the time nurses/cnas do with patients (reality). This doctor may have been trying to establish sex commorodery at your death, and perhaps wanted to swoop down and make a kill, in plain sight of the PT, for drama some people feed on. Like some nurses [i heard] do to their young.

Allow yourself some days to get over this, and just grow from it.

sincerely

mario

[sjoe]

1) write her up

2) file a gender discrimination complaint against the doc

3) question this business about a patient deciding what gender he/she wants as a nurse. do patients in your hospital also dictate the gender of their docs? of their pharmacists? of their aides?--all this is gender discrimination, and if your hospital supports it, they are discriminating as well.

[mattsmom81]

OK, we can catch more flies with honey....

Talk to the doc honestly, tell her you were wrong not to knock (you were) and you made a mistake. Then bring up the 'damn male nurse' comment...and how disappointed you were to hear her say that...end with you hope you can work together in harmony from now on, and if she ever has a concern with you you hope she will discuss it directly with you from now on, not with your coworkers or the patients. (Now, the docs in my area always knock before entering a room, and we nurses do as well...maybe it's a southern thing)

Now, I love all the bravado here...and I hate verbal abuse..but as far as writing up a doc for something like this, it's a real crapshoot. Management usually caters to the docs (and patients) You say you've only gotten lukewarm support from some of your managers...why risk it?!

Choose your battles. A similar 'male nurse discrimination' situation...also in OB... was just out on another thread too.

All I can say is, male nurses: forewarned is forearmed. You would be wise to be extremely cautious around your female patients and their modesty issues....

Good luck DayRay. :)

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Howdy yall

from deep in the heat of texas

A long time ago I learned that things said were not necessarily meant, but came out in the heat of the moment. I have. like a duck letting water roll of its back, learned to do the same. Or you can call it selective hearing, Learned that well raising kids. But if you dont acknowledge it then it doesnt affect you. I choose not to let certain people affect me in this world. And I am much happier and my golf swing is better.

doo wah ditty

[CATHYW]

DayRay, I am late getting to this thread. I hope you have already completed an incident report. This Dr. sounds like one of the ones we have here, that I used to see fairly regularly. Her nickname was "the Ice Queen." She didn't draw the line-she was rude to all of us, male and female, but her patients LOVED her!

As a suggestion to prevent future occurrences, should your hands be full, or if there really isn't a door (say there is a drawn curtain), you can politely say loud enough to be heard, "knock, knock, it's me, (or, your nurse, or DayRay, or whatever) to acknowledge their right to privacy, and your right to be there and do your job.

Watch out for this Dr. Any time you have one of her patients, be sure that your charting and everything is up to date, and that you carry out her orders to the T. She is not the kind of person that you want to have to report a complication, missed order, wrong test, test not done on time, or med order to! Since she has already reported you once, she won't have any problem doing it twice. Don't give her the opportunity.

[LasVegasRN]

Originally posted by nursegoodguy

....In the future if my hands were full I'd just say 'knock knock"..

I'm sorry, this made me :rotfl:

Giuseppe, I'd love to work with you! :chuckle

[Youda]

I had to smile at your concern that the other doctors might protect her, and you making waves might come back to you in worse ways. The chances are excellent that this doctor treats everyone like this at one time or another . . . including the other doctors. If you're uncomfortable with writing her up, think of a retort to use the next time she does it (and she will). You have to stand up for yourself, though, because if you don't the behavior will continue and esculate. But, sometimes a few well-chosen words takes care of the problem, too. Personally, I think I would have waited outside the door for her to come out, and told her that her behavior was inappropriate then. Perhaps a less formal complaint such as just a chat with your nurse manager over coffee would help. The NM might just be able to put a bug in the "higher ups" ears. But, I suspect they already know about this particular doctor's behavior.

[Dr. Kate, BSN, RN]

Can we spell "hostile workplace"

Write it up. Risk Management, Medical Staff, HR. Write it up now, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

If you feel compelled to talk with this person, be sure you have a witness with you. Write up the conversation. If you're in a union facility, take it to them as well. A stweard will be glad to accompany you for any and all conversations on the matter.

It sounds like you have a supportive manager. But you do not have to tolerate abuse. And placating your feelings is not enough. Doctors have to get the message that they are part of the nursing shortage problem.

As we said in teh 60s: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

[mattsmom81]

I hear what you're saying Dr. Kate. But the reality is nurses work in hostile workplaces every day...at least in my area.

Yes, we can write docs up. I have done so ....there are often some negative consequences so be aware of that.....

The only time I have seen nurses 'win' and really positively effect the behavior of a nasty abusive doc is:

1) deal with them face to face and find common ground. You can have a witness with you....choose a highly respected nurse. I always start here ... 8 out of 10 times I see SOME positive results.

2) do a 'group write up' with as many staff members you can documenting incidents of bad behavior of this doc. Numbers count....as if it's just one complaining, it's easy to railroad that 'one'.

Docs CAN act very childishly and vindictively when they are written up...and nurses can come out losers unless they have a lot of support and witnesses to help them.

I hope to see things changing soon re: abusive, hostile environments in the hospital. I'm glad to see policies springing up and hotlines for reporting of incidents at some facilities. Has anyone seen positive results from these?

In my agency travels over the past 15 years 'doc abuse with the NURSE blamed' seems to be a common problem ...in my metro area anyway.