What do nursing unions do?

RN34TX · Feb 19, 2005

Unions promote a dictatorship of medicocrity

Where is Mattsmom81 on this thread? She always has something to say about advocating for unions.

I've experienced both environments and honestly can't say that I side with either one. All of the benefits of being union have been listed and to be devil's advocate it's only fair for me to tell some of the disadvantages of being unionized that I personally witnessed:

1. Unions protect the laziest, barely meeting standards nurses. You can't get rid of them, they can and will be the most cranky and difficult to work with people but because they've been there for years and have union protection, you can't do anything about them.

2. Unions pit RN's against LPN's as well as other allied health professionals. They should be represented by one union but they never are. My first union job was on a respiratory unit where only the nurses would empty the suction canisters no matter who walked in and saw them full because the RT's would say "that is not in my contract or job description."

3. The union had a "grid" where only a certain number of RN's and LPN's could be working on a given unit and shft. On my respiratory unit if we had too many LPN's who were ventilator trained we had to ship them off to other units and replace them often with RN's who normally worked psych or rehab and never touched a vent in their entire career (now that's really safe) but the union was constantly paranoid that "LPN's will take over if we don't keep them in check" so they made sure that only a few worked on any unit regardless of skill level.

I could list other problems but that's just to give something to think about.

begalli · Feb 19, 2005

Any thoughts, opinions, advice, or suggestions? From both those who oppose unions and those who are for or belong to one?

Melanie,

The California Nurses Association (CNA) is always a good source of information. I do not belong to this union but I pay attention to what they do.

Check out the CNA's website. Especially this link that their website,

I think unions are VERY important to nursing. Not only for the representation in the workplace, but also for the professional recognition that nurses deserve as a group.

I've always had it good and have been ignorant to what goes on out there in the rest of the country, but after reading these boards over the last several months, I've come to realize that nurses get jerked around, taken advantage of, are paid peanuts, and literally abused TOO MUCH by their "employers."

Good unions can step in on behalf of nurses collectively and negotiate boundaries on that kind of stuff. Unions get laws made and can influence the political decision making process. These are not the labor unions of decades past that go on strike and leave workers and their families high and dry. These unions are uniquely NURSING.

I'm simply a layperson when it comes to union, but this is what I feel. I don't think that I would ever work at a hospital that wasn't unionized.

If you'd like a link to my professional union, pm me and I'll send you the url.

safewaygreenbox · Feb 19, 2005

Your voice is much louder with thousands of union members standing behind you!

Some (not many) of the nurses (and porters etc) in the UK are union reps and get paid time of work for 'union business'. Is this so in the US?

OC_An Khe · Feb 19, 2005

Where is Mattsmom81 on this thread? She always has something to say about advocating for unions.
I've experienced both environments and honestly can't say that I side with either one. All of the benefits of being union have been listed and to be devil's advocate it's only fair for me to tell some of the disadvantages of being unionized that I personally witnessed:
1. Unions protect the laziest, barely meeting standards nurses. You can't get rid of them, they can and will be the most cranky and difficult to work with people but because they've been there for years and have union protection, you can't do anything about them.
2. Unions pit RN's against LPN's as well as other allied health professionals. They should be represented by one union but they never are. My first union job was on a respiratory unit where only the nurses would empty the suction canisters no matter who walked in and saw them full because the RT's would say "that is not in my contract or job description."
3. The union had a "grid" where only a certain number of RN's and LPN's could be working on a given unit and shft. On my respiratory unit if we had too many LPN's who were ventilator trained we had to ship them off to other units and replace them often with RN's who normally worked psych or rehab and never touched a vent in their entire career (now that's really safe) but the union was constantly paranoid that "LPN's will take over if we don't keep them in check" so they made sure that only a few worked on any unit regardless of skill level.
I could list other problems but that's just to give something to think about.

With regard to the RN/LPN being in the same Union, at least in hospitals,they can't be due to NLRB ans US Supreme Court rulings that separate various professions by responsibilities and educational requirements. RN are deemed to be profession that stands alone on its own merit. LPN 's because of there limited scope of practise and educational level are grouped in with technicians.

Unions don't protect individuals anymore than managers can and do protect their "pets/favorites" who may also be lazy and mediocre. The unions protect and defend the individuals right to due process and that disicpline is for just cause and not at the whim of the managers "mood du jour". This defense of due process is required by federal law even if the union agrees with management, they still have to defend the member.If the union member is not meeting standards and needs discipline the Union will make sure the accusations are just and that correct procedure is followed. I've seen many union nurses disiciplined, including termination, for just cause.

Another web site for Union information is AFT.org and click on the Health Constituencey'. AFT represents many RNs, in all RN Unions, throughout the USA. The fully understand the health care industry.

s.c. lady · Feb 19, 2005

SO, HOW EXACTLY DO YOU GET A UNION STARTED WITHOUT ENDING UP.... :chair: !!!!!!!!!!

WE NEED A VOICE SO BADLY, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR NAME IS DIRT IF YOU MENTION IT. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IS IT LEGAL IN EVERY STATE? DOES EVERY STATE BOARD OF NURSING HAVE A VIEW ABOUT UNIONS?

HELP ME OUT GUYS!

THANKS

James Huffman · Feb 19, 2005

SO, HOW EXACTLY DO YOU GET A UNION STARTED WITHOUT ENDING UP.... :chair: !!!!!!!!!!
WE NEED A VOICE SO BADLY, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR NAME IS DIRT IF YOU MENTION IT. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT IS IT LEGAL IN EVERY STATE? DOES EVERY STATE BOARD OF NURSING HAVE A VIEW ABOUT UNIONS?
HELP ME OUT GUYS!
THANKS

1. Unions are -- so far as I know -- legal in all states. The question is whether there can be "closed shops" in which employees are required to join a union as a condition of employment.

2. Unions are not within the scope of the BON unless the union or something relating to a union infringes on professional standards and care. Your BON is there (hopefully ... :-) to protect the public from sub-standard care. Their "views about unions" are not an issue there.

Jim Huffman, RN

proudmommielpn · Feb 19, 2005

OK, I'll get ready for the backlash LOL. But anyway, I don't feel like unions have a place in healthcare because if you go out on strike the only people you are hurting are your patient's. If you work in a factory or such then if you go out on strike then you do hurt your employer which is what you want. That is just my personal opinion. Please be nice!!!:chair:

fergus51 · Feb 19, 2005

I only work union jobs now. I've worked non-union and it was not a good experience. That said, there are a lot of misconceptions about unions. Proudmommielpn brought up a great one, in that I have never been on strike and harmed patients. The most any of my unions would do is cut down on non-nursing duties and non-essential services. Essential services are always maintained. Since I work OB/NICU, I have always been considered essential services and was even authorized to work overtime shifts when we were in a contract dispute, so it didn't affect me at all except that I stopped doing non-nursing duties. Also, nurses can and do get fired from union jobs. Anyone who says they can't is just passing the buck for a lazy manager.

fergus51 · Feb 19, 2005

Wow I don't work with mediocre nurses. I am in no way mediocre either. Hiring practices are pretty stringent in the unionized hospitals where I have worked here on the West Coast. Gee, then, I guess that does not apply to all unions eh.

Thanks Deb. The notion that some of us like unions because we are just mediocre and lazy is a little tired for sure :rolleyes:

WV RN · Feb 20, 2005

In our hospital, the only workers who are not in the Union are the Business Office and the RN's. Our hospital was strictly anti-union until 9yrs ago. I was even told during my interview (fifteen years ago) the the "u" word was a bad word and was not to be spoken!

allnurses Guide · Feb 20, 2005

In our hospital, the only workers who are not in the Union are the Business Office and the RN's. Our hospital was strictly anti-union until 9yrs ago. I was even told during my interview (fifteen years ago) the the "u" word was a bad word and was not to be spoken!

Well, no one is going to tell me not to say the word union. That is ridiculous that anyone told you that and that they are abiding by it.

The hospital I started work at 6 1/2 years ago in a small rural community did have union talks. The nursing staff for about a year talked with union reps who came to our facility and sat in our conference room and talked about what they could do for us. We peppered them with lots of questions as the majority of nursing staff did not want a union. Our administration did nothing to keep us from talking about a union. In the end the majority voted it down.

No one forces someone to have the mentality to say something like "the "u" word was a bad word and was not to be spoken". Hell, if I worked there and that was said to me, I'd get myself a great big "UNION YES" button and wear it proudly. I'd still never join a union.

Please people, stand up for yourself . . .be a professional and an adult.

steph