What Did Joe See?

[Have Nurse]

"You're floating up to Tele this evening," my Supervisor stated.

"But, I can't read the monitors yet!" I replied with some anxiety. I was a L.P.N. going to R.N. school, and this was my first day on the job at this St. Paul hospital. I was only BLS certified, not ACLS.

"Not to worry," said she. "I told them your status and they have some over-flow Med/Surg patients that they need help with." I breathed a sigh of relief and nodded. Med/Surg was my strength.

"I'm on it. Thanks." Off I went to the Tele floor to grab Report. "Joe", was one of my elderly patients, recovering from a recent bout of pneumonia. He had also had a chest tube which was removed earlier that day. Awake, alert and oriented, he chatted on about his dear wife of 62 years, 9 kids and many grandchildren. He couldn't wait to get home. He was up in chair for supper. I had already done my assessment with him earlier, and medicated him for pain. He was tired of course, but in very good spirits. Around 8:00 p.m., I was assisting Joe with his H.S. cares. He was rather fatigued being up so we opted to let him do them while he was in bed. I had just set up the bedside table with his supplies.

"Joe," I said, "I am going to empty your foley bag while you are washing up, and then I will remove it and finish your cares."

He nodded, smiling. "You know," he started, "I use Sea Bond. (denture item) As soon as he got the words out, he looked past me at the window. His expression had suddenly changed. The sun had started to go down, and we were up several stories, so the beams from the sun wouldn't reach his window, still a very bright stream of light was coming through. Joe's smile broadened. Joe raised his arms, as his face lit up, as a child waiting to be picked up by a loving father, he collapsed.

"Joe," I yelled, "Can you hear me?" I grabbed my scope and listened to his chest. He had no heartbeat. I yelled for help. The nurses came running. In my panic I couldn't remember if he was a full code or not.

"He is," stated the Charge Nurse. "Let's do this."

I removed the headboard and placed it under Joe's upper body and tossed his Pillow to the chair. I climbed up on his bed for better leverage and began compressions. My Preceptor was there at his head with the Ambu bag. I counted and pushed down, praying inside that I was still doing it right, and that Joe would come back. I was so focused on the compressions and the fear I was feeling, I didn't notice when the Code Team arrived. They put leads on his chest, turned on their equipment, still I did compressions. Finally, and very kindly, sensing my intensity, the doctor gently said in my ear,

"You may stop compressions now."

"Oh!! You're here!" I said with relief. We had a rhythm. By now Joe's family was arriving in the hallway, along with the Hospital Chaplain. I looked at my Preceptor, trying hard to appear calm, even though inside my gut was feeling, anxiety, relief, exhaustion. She hugged me.

"Well," said she, "I guess we can check off your Orientation C.P.R. requirement." I stepped back into the hallway to see Joe's family. The team was still getting him stabilized for transport to ICU. The Chaplain was offering comfort and calm. The family asked me what happened. I explained. The Chaplain took my hand and held it to his chest and asked,

"What do you think he saw?" There was silence in the hallway. I knew I would have to be careful of what I said. Still, as nurses, we treat not only the body but the spirit as well. I silently prayed for guidance.

"I'm not sure," I started, "But, Joe saw something and whatever it was, or Whomever it was, he was happy when he saw it. He raised his arms, and drew it in." Tears began to form in the Chaplain's eyes. He turned and offered to walk over to ICU with the family.

I turned to my charting, a bit choked up myself. Jan, my Preceptor, just smiled. My first day on the job and my first code. Yikes! The next day I learned that we only got Joe back for four hours, that in the wee hours of the morning, he died. I was sad, but glad that we got him back long enough for him to say goodbye to his family and his beloved wife of 62 years.

Looking back, I am not sure why I was allowed to be part of that in the grand scheme of things. But while being mindful of HIPAA, when I shared the story with my Bio professor, a man with a cardiac problem, who often asked me about what I believed out of class, he too had tears in his eyes.

"If you are not sure of what may come after death, Sir, ask yourself this, what did Joe see?

[OldDude]

It wasn't by accident or coincidence you were there to witness Joe take his first step into eternal life. God placed you there and you have subsequently utilized this experience to enhance your discipleship to do His work; to go forth as His hands and feet...as evidence, in part, by you sharing this heart warming experience of Joe. This made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Thank you for sharing...Amen

[Davey Do]

It's nearly impossible to imagine no existence after our sojourn in this mortal coil, eh Have Nurse?

.

Well, I suppose that's possible except - He was conscious and talking when he saw it. (smile)

when the body is shutting down, an plethora of neurotransmitters are released in the brain as a last ditch effort to prolong its existence.

and Joe was near death. He proved that by dying a short time thereafter.

None of us want to believe that we will cease to exist after we die. We all want to believe that our existance will continue in some form.

It's obvious that you want to believe Joe had a

view of the transcendent

and are arguing for that premise.

You asked, Have Nurse, "What did Joe See?", when in fact it seems you are seeking reinforcement for your beliefs, i.e. "Did Joe See What I Really Want to Believe He Saw?"

I read Raymond Moody's Life After Life and several other books on the afterlife and reincarnation, studied different religions and theologies for years which all reinforced my belief in an afterlife.

Then, in the late '90's I read Sherwin Nuland's How We Die which allowed me to consider a different perspective.

Considering that Dr. Nuland's belief may just be what happens after we die was a difficult pill for me to swallow, but the fact is it might be just what happens.

We can discuss and argue beliefs until we're blue in the face, but, in the end, that's all they are: beliefs.

Some day we will each know the truth. But for now, the majority want to support the belief in an afterlife.

[Have Nurse, ADN, RN]

"Some day we will each know the truth. But for now, the majority want to support the belief in an afterlife. "

There's certainly no argument that it makes one take pause, doesn't it? After Jesus arose from the dead, over 3,000 people saw him ascend back to Heaven. It wasn't a "belief". It is fact.

But that aside, I guess for me, and others, we remember that we are made in His image. That means that in addition to our body, we have a longing to find something wonderful that can bring our spirit peace. In short, our soul wants to touch God. That is why many of us fall into awful situations that can hurt us, drugs, alcohol, unhealthy companionship, danger.

That isn't what He wanted for us. Those were choices we made. But the good news is that there is nothing you have done or said, that God cannot forgive. Why else would Jesus have gone to the cross to pay for our sins, to save us from Hell? But only if we accept Him.

I was very rebellious as a young adult, I was angry and hurt and damaged. If it wasn't for Jesus and His grace and discipline, I would be dead and dead without hope.

The only thing that stopped me from killing myself all those years ago, was the fear of going to Hell. (I wasn't sure about it.) And we were speaking of eternity.

Satan fought for my soul and he still tries to attack on occasion but I know in Whom I have believed. I just draw my sword (the word of God) and stand. Sometimes that is all you can do....stand.

[OldDude]

...

We can discuss and argue beliefs until we're blue in the face, but, in the end, that's all they are: beliefs.

Some day we will each know the truth...

So true. I want to share a variant of the subject but same theme. My dad was a life long smoker, Camel filter-less, and lived the last 10 years of his life huffing, puffing, and gasping, through the slow, insidious, onslaught of emphysema. He was finally placed on Hospice but still alert, able to walk short distances, and was independent with ADLs, but tethered to an O2 concentrater via nasal cannula and a 10 ft hose. His appearance and behavior in no way represented imminent death, however, unbeknownst to my mother, during the wee hours one morning, he turned off the O2 machine, neatly coiled his O2 hose and hung it on the machine, layed down on the floor on his side, with his hands together under his head, and checked out...I had spoken with him just the day before - my birthday.

So yes, some day we will know the truth, but occurrences such as these sure point to some communication with "another side" of life.

[Davey Do]

It wasn't a "belief". It is fact.

Well, you've got me there, Have Nurse.

You're right. I guess I was wrong to think otherwise.

*Bows out gracefully from discussion.*

[/username, BSN, RN]

There's certainly no argument that it makes one take pause, doesn't it? After Jesus arose from the dead, over 3,000 people saw him ascend back to Heaven. It wasn't a "belief". It is fact.

I would be very wary of asserting something written decades after Jesus died, by people who weren't there and didn't see it as fact.

Facts are indisputable, immutable, and most importantly provable and verifiable.

In the gospels and acts, it's said that he appears to less than 20 specific people, so not quite sure where you're getting the over 3,000 figure from...

[chacha82, ADN, BSN]

I say this as a very skeptical, eye - rolly person...I once SAW a patient I had coded that day and transferred. He was outside my window that evening, looking at me. It made no sense but he was clearly standing there, then gone. I knew it was him, I did not feel afraid. It was a strange feeling but not fear. When I returned to work I heard he had passed.

[Have Nurse, ADN, RN]

I would be very wary of asserting something written decades after Jesus died, by people who weren't there and didn't see it as fact.

Facts are indisputable, immutable, and most importantly provable and verifiable.

In the gospels and acts, it's said that he appears to less than 20 specific people, so not quite sure where you're getting the over 3,000 figure from...

First, I apologize. I got my verses mixed up! The 3,000 to whom I refer were the new believers at Pentacost. Acts2:41

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized; and the same day there were added unto them about 3,000 souls." KJV

Regarding Christ's ascension: In the book of Luke, (one of many reports),Cleopas and one other disciple, was on the road to Emmaus when they met Jesus. At first they didn't recognize him. This was after the crucifixion. He walked and talked with them for miles. The two men asked Jesus, as it was late to stay and dine with them, which he did. Then...Luke 24:31 And then, their eyes were opened and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight."

After they realized who he was they went back to Jerusalem and told the remaining disciples what they had seen and he appeared again in verse 36. He showed them the wounds in his hands and his feet and told them what they must do. While he did that, they WATCHED him as he was carried up into Heaven.

Luke 24:50-51.

Don't take my word for it. Read it yourself. It's wonderful!

[elkpark]

"Some day we will each know the truth. But for now, the majority want to support the belief in an afterlife. "

There's certainly no argument that it makes one take pause, doesn't it? After Jesus arose from the dead, over 3,000 people saw him ascend back to Heaven. It wasn't a "belief". It is fact.

But that aside, I guess for me, and others, we remember that we are made in His image. That means that in addition to our body, we have a longing to find something wonderful that can bring our spirit peace. In short, our soul wants to touch God. That is why many of us fall into awful situations that can hurt us, drugs, alcohol, unhealthy companionship, danger.

That isn't what He wanted for us. Those were choices we made. But the good news is that there is nothing you have done or said, that God cannot forgive. Why else would Jesus have gone to the cross to pay for our sins, to save us from Hell? But only if we accept Him.

I was very rebellious as a young adult, I was angry and hurt and damaged. If it wasn't for Jesus and His grace and discipline, I would be dead and dead without hope.

The only thing that stopped me from killing myself all those years ago, was the fear of going to Hell. (I wasn't sure about it.) And we were speaking of eternity.

Satan fought for my soul and he still tries to attack on occasion but I know in Whom I have believed. I just draw my sword (the word of God) and stand. Sometimes that is all you can do....stand.

First, I apologize. I got my verses mixed up! The 3,000 to whom I refer were the new believers at Pentacost. Acts2:41

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized; and the same day there were added unto them about 3,000 souls." KJV

Regarding Christ's ascension: In the book of Luke, (one of many reports),Cleopas and one other disciple, was on the road to Emmaus when they met Jesus. At first they didn't recognize him. This was after the crucifixion. He walked and talked with them for miles. The two men asked Jesus, as it was late to stay and dine with them, which he did. Then...Luke 24:31 And then, their eyes were opened and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight."

After they realized who he was they went back to Jerusalem and told the remaining disciples what they had seen and he appeared again in verse 36. He showed them the wounds in his hands and his feet and told them what they must do. While he did that, they WATCHED him as he was carried up into Heaven.

Luke 24:50-51.

Don't take my word for it. Read it yourself. It's wonderful!

I knew when I read the initial post that this thread was eventually going to turn into the OP preaching to us. OP, the Bible is a lovely collection of writings and lots of people believe in what it says, but that in no way makes it "fact." I'll make a deal with you -- those of us here who consider the whole thing nonsense won't try to talk you out of believing what you believe, and you don't try to talk us into believing it. Deal??? The preaching gets v. tedious and annoying.

(BTW, I'm with Nuland and the other scientists on the whole NDE thing.)

[OldDude]

... I'll make a deal with you -- those of us here who consider the whole thing nonsense won't try to talk you out of believing what you believe, and you don't try to talk us into believing it. Deal??? The preaching gets v. tedious and annoying.

(BTW, I'm with Nuland and the other scientists on the whole NDE thing.)

I am a Christian and "believe" in that which is written in the Bible...but elkpark, what a refreshing statement! It's been a long time since I've seen an example of disagreement, especially over such a subject, without nasty and personal attacks. Obviously, people come from diverse and varied backgrounds so there will never be universal agreement; except for one thing - the one thing we have in common here is we are all nurses...universally bonded!!

Now if we could just take your reasonable viewpoint and overlay it onto politics!!!!

[Amethya]

I think the reason we like to think there's something on the other side is so we won't be afraid of death when it comes and accept it. Death seems less scary if you think you will be okay.

When I was in high school, there as this book called "Elsewhere". The story basically about this young girl who dies from a bicycle accident and wakes up on a boat. She arrives in a city called Elsewhere, where everyone ages backwards, and once they are newborn age, they get sent down a river and are re-born.

I was raised catholic, but I was never was happy with the idea that heaven is the final place we stay and that's it. We don't see anyone anymore and we just fly around in clouds. I like the idea that we will see our love ones in Heaven, like the protagonist did and possibly, come back to live again.

I had times when I felt like I didn't want to live again, but I found myself again and gained my will to live again. So I don't want to stay dead, I want to live.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

I have had many patients see a deceased loved one, right before they died. They looked right passed me.. and started talking to them.

Can't answer if there is life after death.

Excellent article!