I came across this is little story today, it's not breaking news. I suspect that a member of the housekeeping staff knows something about the bomb threat that required the sweep for weapons.
According to police in Secaucus, the bomb threat — which later was determined to be bogus — was called in to Hudson Regional Hospital on July 18. During a search, bomb detection dogs led investigators to an unlocked office closet containing dozens of firearms.
Among the weapons were 11 handguns and 27 rifles or shotguns, according to police. The closet also contained a .45 caliber semi-automatic rifle with a high-capacity magazine that was determined to be an assault rifle, and a 14-round high-capacity handgun magazine.
The arrested the guy the next day.
What the heck do you think this guy was doing? It sounds very ominous that he was keeping those weapons there.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Roitrn said:
Who's feeling are being coddled? The feeling of a very small percent of the population that disregards others that identify as the sex they were born with? Some people do not want to see male genitals in their intimate place.
There are no studies or stats to assess how many times women and girls have been subjected to seeing male genitalia in there intimate spaces. Are their any stats even asking women how they feel? That woukd be considered transphobic to even ask. I'd imagine what occurs most likely is the women and girls just leave and perhaps avoid recreation or find somewhere else to go. The girls on the swim team that reported their discomfort didn't have their concerns addressed and we defamed as transphobe bigots. I most certainly wouldn't say something and be called an intolerant transphobe? Cell phones in hand recording every minute? No thank you. This is why you may not find the evidence you demand.
You haven't actually established that women or girls are seeing the memberes or testicles of transwomen in any kind of a regular fashion that would necessitate a new, special law. You've provided one, not very credible, and unsubstantiated claim.
Nobody wants to see male genitalia "in their intimate place". That doesn't stop men from doing that. Transwomen who bare their memberes in view of unsuspecting women are currently getting charged and tried for indecency and similar crimes, as they should. No new laws are needed, IMV. There aren't a flood of cases.
I certainly didn't call the girls in that article transphobes. Are you assuming that women experience terrible things frequently from that 0.05% of the adult population that identified as transgender? Why are specific bathroom laws required?
Seriously, if there's little actual evidence then there's likely little actual problem.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Roitrn said:
Let's stop with the misleading hyperbole. It's not "forcing trans people out of bathrooms". It the concern is the possible implications on girls and women in their intimate spaces.
It absolutely is about forcing those memberes out of the women's bathroom because of the concerns you have outlined. The laws require the trans women to use men's bathrooms because of concerns of possible (not tangible or actual) implications.
What about the implications of requiring that vulnerable trans woman to use the men's bathroom? You know, the person that lives and dresses as a female... those laws force them to use the men's locker rooms and bathrooms. What about them? They are vulnerable. They get beat up and abused in horrible ways by toxic and insecure males far too often. How often do you think that abuse happens in a bathroom for males only?
it's important that legislators stop inserting themselves into these type of personal matters and then saying oops when the negative consequences become painfully obvious for the people who must live the law. These bathroom bills are not necessary and they actually harm vulnerable people.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Roitrn said:
No. Your opinion on Trump doesn't bother me at all. It is clear that in your view, the transgender issue is caused by him/ policy and right wing news. Mostly FOX I presume.
...
Dunno about that Trump denial, you never let a related Trump reference go without complaining about it in some way but not ever really discussing the relationship or why it might be worthy. It's a pattern.
You think that I think that Trump and right wing media CAUSED transgender issues? That's your actual understanding?
Somehow, I think you actually don't believe that but you are, instead, misrepresenting my actual stance and words intentionally. Do you do that to confuse the discussion or to try to be contentious and combative? It's certainly not a good way to have a discussion, IMV.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Roitrn said:
Are you saying women purposely look at transgender women to get a glimpse of their member?
Don't be purposely obtuse. I'm not referring to transpeople themselves as an issue. The issue is with traditionally intimate spaces for only women. How do we help everyone feel comfortable?
Having a bathroom exclusively for women prevents a rape victim from more trauma from seeing a person who still may look like a man, and have the sex organs they were violated with. How many more rapes in bathrooms would there be if men hetero or otherwise were able to freely walk into bathrooms and locker rooms? There is a reason for sex segregated intimate spaces. You still have not answered why this is?
You also have no evidence that there isn't a risk or any studies on how women feel and/or how many have been exposed to genitalia? ( I didn't say that they were more likely to be rapist). I'm not talking about rape, I'm talking about seeing intact trans-women in women's intimate spaces.
I believe that there are primary sex characteristics at birth. Male, female and hermaphrodite/ inter-sexed They were born that way. I think transgenderism is like most things, is a balance between nature vs nature. And anyone who identified with whatever gender is fully entitled to and be treated with respect. However girls and women should feel safe and respected as well. So what is the solution?
Do you take issue with gender neutral bathrooms? I think the solution is gender neutral washrooms and locker rooms.
I clearly suggested that a woman might look. Do you think that women are above checking out other women? Or checking to see if the rumors are true about the trans woman... come on.
Don't be obtuse? Don't be arrogant and rude. Transwomen are women. They are qualified to enter spaces designed for women only. We make everyone comfortable by not passing intrusive and unnecessary laws which would cause harm to the trans community. At the same time we interact with the communities who are wanting the new restrictive laws to help them to understand that there is little cause for concern and that any issues with indecent exposures or unwanted contact can be handled with current law. Education helps. Some people don't understand that very little about our biology is simple or back and white. All of our sapien functions and characteristcs are varied. We define a spectrum of normal to try to organize that variance in an understandable way. We increase understanding and empathy and that makes everyone more comfortable
This concern about manly appearing women in bathrooms came from where? Manly appearing women, often dressed in a very manly fashion have used women's bathrooms and locker rooms forever in this country. It's already not okay for men to walk into women's bathrooms. We don't need new laws targeting transwomen to make it not okay for men to walk into women's bathrooms. Sexual assault groups don't agree that transwomen in women's bathrooms is any kind of concern.
I know you are talking about seeing memberes in women's locker rooms and bathrooms. I just think that's not a frequent problem and if it occurs current laws can address it.
You ask me this question "There is a reason for sex segregated intimate spaces. You still have not answered why this is? "
What a curious question. I'm not certain what you are asking.
The new law that took effect Sunday makes abortions a felony punishable by up to five years in prison and states that "abortion defined in this act is not health care."
And this;
Quote
"It's not clear whether abortion is health care. The court has to then decide that," she added.
It seems to me that healthcare professionals and healthcare journals and textbooks all very clearly place abortion in the category of health care, but these people are saying that the courts will decide whether or not it is really health care. Can someone explain?
It seems to me that healthcare professionals and healthcare journals and textbooks all very clearly place abortion in the category of health care, but these people are saying that the courts will decide whether or not it is really health care. Can someone explain?
Does it make you uncomfortable to mention or discuss the connections to Trump policy? Should we avoid mention of Trump policy because that implies blame and you don't like that? Do you think that political policy and messaging doesn't affect the behavior and lives of people across the country?
Why can't the discussion of the topic include possible causes or influences? How do you solve problems if you don't understand their root causes? Are you trying to control the discussion?
You can believe what you want about why the only sources you could find were not very reliable, regardless of which way they lean politically. I simply asked if you could agree that it was a possibility that the reason you couldn't find left leaning sources was because left wing reporting isn't really interested in those not very credible stories and unsubstantiated claims. Apparently you couldn't agree.
You are confused again. I didn't say that you said anything about MTG etc al. Slow down and read for comprehension not response.
Why do I have to answer a dumb question about historic bathroom design? Are we asking random questions about bathrooms? Why are there fewer public urinals and or toilets for women than for men? Why are men's locker rooms in colleges nice than women's? Are you trying to derail the conversation, because those things are unrelated to why conservatives are pretending that it's scary and dangerous for a transwoman to use a woman's bathroom or shower. You haven't actually provided any real proof or evidence that trans women are scary or dangerous in those settings. You've only proved that some people are horrified by the thought of being in a locker room with them. In the case that was presented, the criminal was wearing a costume and was not a trans woman. Sometimes it's difficult to tell who is wearing a costume and who is not. Do we limit other people that might be mimicked or copied or impersonated by a criminal or conman? If not then why would we limit trans people because of the crimes of others?
There was no actual believable claim, in my view, in the case you cited. If there was indecent exposure she should have reported it to the police. If she simply looked because she was curious then she has no right to be offended. How can you be certain which way that went? It's one anecdotal case that describes no actual harm or malicious intent. Can you think of a reason why a transwoman would want to display her member in a locker room?
Does your hyperbole about lipstick with memberes hanging out imply that you think that it wouldn't still be indecent exposure? Please explain why that exposure wouldn't violate current laws... even with pigtails and lipstick. Do you think that trans people are given special treatment by police?
And yet little girls are sexually assaulted by heterosexual men all the time, sometimes in bathrooms, and these laws don't do anything to prevent or address that data supported reality. They address the non existent misconduct of transwomen in bathrooms and locker rooms. These laws assign all manner of unsavory behavior to trans women that simply isn't evidenced in fact.
Are you aware that there is a spectrum of "normal" as related to external genitalia? When is someone with a member maybe not a man? Did you learn about hermaphrodites in nursing school? It's not really terribly uncommon in the natural world in either plants or animals.
Can't like this too much. In the news today:
(WXYZ) — The Michigan Chair of the GOP is issuing no apology following a contentious tweet that sparked outrage among many in Michigan.
The tweet, sent out by the official Michigan Republican Party Twitter account, alluded that gun control legislation could lead to a repeat of the Holocaust.
But, what made people more outraged was the second tweet defending the first one and then during a press conference tripling down.
"We are a different Republican party. We are not the Republican party who apologized and runs away from our positions," Michigan GOP Chair Kristina Karamo said.
Karamo was elected last month as the new chair for the Michigan GOP. She doubled down on a tweet she sent about gun control that referenced the Holocaust and it sparked outrage for some in the Jewish community.
NOW - this is a real, live problem that came about because of the legislature who wanted stiff penalties for accessible guns around kids. You don't have to be Jewish to take offense to this; it's offensive to all sentient human beings. I'm not sure what her twisted logic is but one explanation is that she believes there is a relationship between the rings the Nazis confiscated and the lack of gun ownership among the Holocaust victims. Is that woman that crazy? You betcha, and yet she was ELECTED by her fellow Republicans. From her logic, one can extrapolate that if the Holocaust victims just had guns, World War II would have ended immediately? I moved here from a metro area of 22,000,000 people and yet I have never personally come across a parent complaining about their child was exposed to a person in a school bathroom dressed up as someone of the opposite sex. Let's worry, instead, about the Adam Lanzas of the world having access to an armory in their house supplied by their mothers.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
subee said:
Can't like this too much. In the news today:
(WXYZ) — The Michigan Chair of the GOP is issuing no apology following a contentious tweet that sparked outrage among many in Michigan.
The tweet, sent out by the official Michigan Republican Party Twitter account, alluded that gun control legislation could lead to a repeat of the Holocaust.
But, what made people more outraged was the second tweet defending the first one and then during a press conference tripling down.
"We are a different Republican party. We are not the Republican party who apologized and runs away from our positions," Michigan GOP Chair Kristina Karamo said.
Karamo was elected last month as the new chair for the Michigan GOP. She doubled down on a tweet she sent about gun control that referenced the Holocaust and it sparked outrage for some in the Jewish community.
NOW - this is a real, live problem that came about because of the legislature who wanted stiff penalties for accessible guns around kids. You don't have to be Jewish to take offense to this; it's offensive to all sentient human beings. I'm not sure what her twisted logic is but one explanation is that she believes there is a relationship between the rings the Nazis confiscated and the lack of gun ownership among the Holocaust victims. Is that woman that crazy? You betcha, and yet she was ELECTED by her fellow Republicans. From her logic, one can extrapolate that if the Holocaust victims just had guns, World War II would have ended immediately? I moved here from a metro area of 22,000,000 people and yet I have never personally come across a parent complaining about their child was exposed to a person in a school bathroom dressed up as someone of the opposite sex. Let's worry, instead, about the Adam Lanzas of the world having access to an armory in their house supplied by their mothers.
That republican should go talk to the families at Oxford and try out that reasoning on them, maybe.
You haven't actually established that women or girls are seeing the memberes or testicles of transwomen in any kind of a regular fashion that would necessitate a new, special law. You've provided one, not very credible, and unsubstantiated claim.
Nobody wants to see male genitalia "in their intimate place". That doesn't stop men from doing that. Transwomen who bare their memberes in view of unsuspecting women are currently getting charged and tried for indecency and similar crimes, as they should. No new laws are needed, IMV. There aren't a flood of cases.
I certainly didn't call the girls in that article transphobes. Are you assuming that women experience terrible things frequently from that 0.05% of the adult population that identified as transgender? Why are specific bathroom laws required?
Seriously, if there's little actual evidence then there's likely little actual problem.
Okay. I never said anything about a special law. I imagine because you think I'm conservative you assume I want a special law.
I provided examples that you completely ignored. Only saying that it wasn't an actual transpersonal but someone "wearing a costume". Here's a few more.
I am a senior woman. Recently, a "man" claiming to be transgender, who had not yet begun physical treatments, was permitted by our local Y to use the women's locker room. There are no secure change rooms. The person they allowed in was not courteous and stared at me while I struggled out of a wet bathing suit. He was naked, had an erection and playfully asked 'do you come here often?’ I understand that gender is no longer judged solely by genitalia, but does a brief contact with the duty manager mean that men not yet committed to gender reassignment are free to disrobe anywhere they choose?
The latter will a very apologetic statement disregarding the woman who made the complaint.
Let me guess, that wasn't a "real transwoman" that was someone "wearing a costume" right? So how do you know? Doesn't matter. Little girks and women should just accept they may see a member and testicle? Sometimes by a person who also wears lipstick and has a beard?
The swimmers were forced to see male genitalia in the locker room. Their concerns were disregarded. They were called transphobic bigots and were offered psychological help in response to their complaint. As well as told that they could be removed from competition.
I clearly suggested that a woman might look. Do you think that women are above checking out other women? Or checking to see if the rumors are true about the trans woman... come on.
Don't be obtuse? Don't be arrogant and rude. Transwomen are women. They are qualified to enter spaces designed for women only. We make everyone comfortable by not passing intrusive and unnecessary laws which would cause harm to the trans community. At the same time we interact with the communities who are wanting the new restrictive laws to help them to understand that there is little cause for concern and that any issues with indecent exposures or unwanted contact can be handled with current law. Education helps. Some people don't understand that very little about our biology is simple or back and white. All of our sapien functions and characteristcs are varied. We define a spectrum of normal to try to organize that variance in an understandable way. We increase understanding and empathy and that makes everyone more comfortable
This concern about manly appearing women in bathrooms came from where? Manly appearing women, often dressed in a very manly fashion have used women's bathrooms and locker rooms forever in this country. It's already not okay for men to walk into women's bathrooms. We don't need new laws targeting transwomen to make it not okay for men to walk into women's bathrooms. Sexual assault groups don't agree that transwomen in women's bathrooms is any kind of concern.
I know you are talking about seeing memberes in women's locker rooms and bathrooms. I just think that's not a frequent problem and if it occurs current laws can address it.
You ask me this question "There is a reason for sex segregated intimate spaces. You still have not answered why this is? "
What a curious question. I'm not certain what you are asking.
I don't assume risk if there's no evidence of risk.
Why would I take issue with gender neutral bathrooms?
I don't know if you are trying to be facetious or straightforward. That's tedious.
Yes. Transwomen are woman as they identify. They were born with member and testicle. Or sometimes with both. That's a fact. They may not have had surgery. Exposing genitalia where children are present is not appropriate. And illegal for another person who has a member. Even if they are just removing their clothing. I never said "waving it around in anyone's face". I also never said anything about rape. You did. My concern is the exposed member and testicles , not if thranswomen are more likely to raped in a locker room. Or if transwomen will rape anyone in a locker room. My post are more focused on how to solve the issue.
Your Reuters source was interesting. However according to a "survey", with no qualifiers is useless. How long have intact transwomen been using women's and girls intimate spaces? Not that long. So any survey like that is lacking significant data.
It's obvious you believe the Trump and Republican policies are responsible for this issue.
The reason bathrooms are sex segregated is so that a girl or a woman doesn't need to see exposed to male sexual organs in public.
The solution I believe is that there should be gender neutral bathrooms/locker rooms or ample private change area that are to be used if a transwoman still has a member or testicles. Or more private change areas so women and girls can change in private. Any act of not being discrete should be prosecuted under indecency law.
toomuchbaloney
16,242 Posts
You haven't actually established that women or girls are seeing the memberes or testicles of transwomen in any kind of a regular fashion that would necessitate a new, special law. You've provided one, not very credible, and unsubstantiated claim.
Nobody wants to see male genitalia "in their intimate place". That doesn't stop men from doing that. Transwomen who bare their memberes in view of unsuspecting women are currently getting charged and tried for indecency and similar crimes, as they should. No new laws are needed, IMV. There aren't a flood of cases.
I certainly didn't call the girls in that article transphobes. Are you assuming that women experience terrible things frequently from that 0.05% of the adult population that identified as transgender? Why are specific bathroom laws required?
Seriously, if there's little actual evidence then there's likely little actual problem.