Weeding out of nursing students

smk1, LPN · Jul 18, 2005

haven't started nursing school yet but am on my last required prereq (micro) and just finished a&p and chem, nutrition etc.

a&p= we started with 130 and only 52 stayed with us and passed third term on time (and a lot of c's were still there) some of the ones i see in classes behind us have retaken the class 2 or 3 times etc..

chem - about 30% didn't pass

micro- can't tell you yet, but the average on the first two tests were in the c range so there must be some people doing poorly to pull it down there, because i know quite a few with a's.

i don't mind a difficult class, i just don't like lying (this won'be on the test and the low and behold there are about 1/3 of the questions that relate to said subject) or teachers who don't actually "teach".

jkaee · Jul 18, 2005

My first clinical was a disaster, my instructor stuck to me like glue, and I was nervous beyond all get out and she gave me a "marginal" which is one step above unsatisfactory. I could have whined, "she's picking on me, she made me nervous, she's prejudiced against males, she's trying to weed me out...". But I rose to the challenge and chose to learn from her and her bad review of me.

I think that's the crux of it, Tweety. I don't think that in my nursing school, the professors actively "weeded out" students that they thought couldn't make it, but rather gave us the tools to advance and succeed. Those who used them with the right attitude made it. Those who whined, cried, and felt picked on usually didn't.

I remember my first clinical. I, too, had never touched a patient. My patient had a G tube, and my instructor asked me to check for placement. I didn't know what to do, and I remember thinking "Isn't that why YOU are here, to TEACH me?" She told me that it was my responsibility to review my patients the night before and research anything that I wasn't familiar with. I accepted what she said, and did it. I kept that attitude throughout nursing school, and graduated with honors on the Dean's list, even with having a baby in between semesters (she was 11 months old when I graduated).

It's all in your attitude, I think. If you are willing to learn and accept what your professors offer to you, then chances are even without straight A's you will make it. I like to believe that most professors see it that way.

Jennifer

HeartsOpenWide, RN · Jul 18, 2005

Do they deliberately make those courses hard to weed out students?
Or is the nature of the material and all that one has to learn so difficult that many people don't make it?

I am not sure about the pharm, but I just finnished all my chems and they say to not tell the one teacher that you are a nurse or he will pretty much fail you. He says tht nurses are lazy and the chemistry is the only class you should take when you are taking it because it is soooo important and that nurses just take it because they have to.

suzy253, RN · Jul 19, 2005

I've always said that anyone that can make through A&P can make it through nursing school....but for those clinicals, you're on you're own there.

I agree with you 100% there Tweets. To me, those were the most difficult classes and a lot of students didn't make it through.

As for my instructors at my school, absolutely not. I have continued to experience that they are behind you 100%. They want you to succeed. They'll approach students individually and as a group and offer their assistance outside the classroom whether it's in their faculty office or meeting for coffee somewhere. I have never been reluctant to sit with an instructor and go over things. Sometimes they offer a different spin--look at a different text they might have, etc.

If you're having trouble with a clinical skill, you're referred to the nursing arts lab instructor for additional help and practice. You can practice all you want until you feel comfortable with the skill. And yes, there was a freshman level instructor who rode my friend Jim's *ss on clinical rotations and he was getting nervous about it and I told him just to rise up to it and show her what he's capable of.

I can't praise my school of nursing enough.

HeartsOpenWide, RN · Jul 19, 2005

Nursing school is supposed to be hard. If it wasn't, everyone would be doing it.

Some one else told me this and I think it is so not true. Not every one is empathetic or has the desire to do so. Although nursing may be popular now, I think a lot of these people are going to find out that it is not for them and there is nothing more awful working at a job you do not like not matter how good it pays.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Jul 19, 2005

That's what I think too. That the program is so difficult and expectations so high, (well duh, we have to learn to take people's lives in our hand) there are going to be students that can't make it.
My first clinical was a disaster, my instructor stuck to me like glue, and I was nervous beyond all get out and she gave me a "marginal" which is one step above unsatisfactory. I could have whined, "she's picking on me, she made me nervous, she's prejudiced against males, she's trying to weed me out...". But I rose to the challenge and chose to learn from her and her bad review of me.
Truth was I was marginal because I was the only one in the group who wasn't a CNA or an LPN, thus she stayed near me to help me as I was the only there who had never touched a patient, my nervousness was my problem, not hers, she was only doing her job in helping to mold a good nurse. From then on I got satisfactory clinical reviews and graduated with honors.

I had a similar experience with my clinicals. Definitely got off on the wrong foot with one instructor, and while I wouldn't say she tried to weed me out, I don't think she would have minded if I quit. We had a couple of conversations, and as soon as she understood that I was trying, she gave me a lot of extra help. It was certainly a trying time: I was nearly exhausted most of the time, and crippled with anxiety. But, in retrospect, I probably needed that stress in order to break out of my established pattern of thinking. So much of nursing is nowhere in the book--like any art, you have to be open to intuition and ready to alter your paradigm.

Which isn't to say I'm anywhere near mastering those skills, but at least I understand the need to develop them.

HappyNurse2005, RN · Jul 19, 2005

Sort of yes, sort of no.

let me say what I'd like to see happen. I'd like to see the weeding happen before nursing school, during pre reqs and have a harder admissions process so there wouldnt be so much failing/dropping out

chadash · Jul 19, 2005

Sort of yes, sort of no.
let me say what I'd like to see happen. I'd like to see the weeding happen before nursing school, during pre reqs and have a harder admissions process so there wouldnt be so much failing/dropping out

absolutely! there is this constant cry of nursing shortages, so it would make sense to take only the canidates who have the qualities needed to complete the program.

traumahawk99 · Jul 19, 2005

if someone isn't capable of doing the job, they shouldn't be able to pass the exams. that should be a process without prejudice.

unfortunately, with nursing schools you do get some instructors who are on a self appointed mission to determine who should and shouldn't be allowed to enter the profession. these instructors are on the ultimate power trip, and will selectively harass some students they don't feel are "worthy of the profession". it might have nothing to do with grades or intellectual ability, just personality. i've got a friend in nursing school dealing with this at the moment. the attitude police are alive and well at this school, which i won't name. some of the behaviors of the instructors are simply outrageous personal attacks.

on the other hand, paramedic schools are much more laid back. the focus is on doing the job. those same instructors that are on such power trips in nursing schools would be drop kicked out the back door of a medic school. as a medic, you can test thru excelsior and become an rn without ever setting foot in a nursing school. i'm very thankful that some folks at the nln have enough sense to realize that there is more than one path to competence.

excelsior graduates 3000 nurses a year, dwarfing any other program. nursing school, for me, is irrelevant. go excelsior!!

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 19, 2005

I am not sure about the pharm, but I just finnished all my chems and they say to not tell the one teacher that you are a nurse or he will pretty much fail you. He says tht nurses are lazy and the chemistry is the only class you should take when you are taking it because it is soooo important and that nurses just take it because they have to.

Strange how an instructor in a course like Pharm. can pick and choose who to fail. What an outrage. Like someone would take pharm for pleasure or for an elective. Lazy...humph.

Nurseinthemaking · Jul 19, 2005

I would have to say that our Instructors don't feel this way. The weeding out kind of happens on its own. If a person really wants it, they won't go anywhere, no matter what is done to them.

Our Instructors are AWESOME. They love us and we love them.

They do however weed out during orientation. The new students get the flat out truth from the current students and we do tend to lose a few that way.

But as far as weeding them out, no, I really don't think that is the case.

Sorry some of you have had a bad experience. It makes me feel very fortunate.

1 month and counting!!!!!!!!!! YeeHAW!!!

SmilingBluEyes · Jul 19, 2005

Deb, I would appreciate more input than just a blanket statement. What is your experience with instructors deliberately weeding out students?

Aw, Tweety. This is old news. Do I have to give you the same story you have already heard many times? Ok, here goes:

The story is about the about instructors who took an intense dislike to some students right away and rode them til they screwed up, sound familiar? Do I have to tell you about the one out to get me for something I did NOT do---and the ONLY reason I went on to graduate was the director seeing this for what it was and stopping it? Thank God for that director---she was the only one who saw the situation clearly and "saved me".

Ya know, I never lied, cheated or did anything wrong, but this gal had it in for me and did her best to outst me........

Sorry , Tweety. I am glad your experiences were so different; mine were hellish. It was like 2 years' basic training.....and truly a couple of our instructors "lurking" at every corner, waiting for us to "trip" up at the clinical areas. It was so stressful, I used to get stomach aches and diarrhea the night before each clinical rotation.

Now, I drew the line when one (a different instructor, actually)---- slapped my wrist (YES, I SAID SLAPPED MY WRIST) when I made a wrong move starting an IV on an old, confused and combative man.

I was beyond humiliated. The patient's whole family saw this. When we were alone, I told her I was NOT a child and she did NOT have my permission to slap my wrist when I screwed up.......she was not happy w/me after that point. I had to watch my back yet again...... So did many others. I was not the only "target".

We started with 36 students, graduated 16. Tell you anything?

:angryfire

The thing is, my story could probably be repeated over and over, ad- nauseum. I have heard it enough from many students, graduates and nurses all over the place---- particularly from AD programs. The BSN grads I speak to usually don't seem to be put through these same stupid paces. Seems the BSN programs treated them like adult learners. More power to them; this is how it should be.

So your belief it is a myth really makes stories like mine seem somewhat illegitimate. It strikes a nerve in me. Believe me, I am not embellishing or lying.

Nursing school ---if I had to do it over again, I doubt I would bother. Yes, it was that bad. They used to love to tell us "we were theirs" til the day we graduated. They meant it. One girl washed out very late in the program. We lost several in the 4th semester. I was so tired of being on my toes all the time.

So yea, I finished with a 4.0, glad to have made it, and very proud. But I needed 3 weeks just to "wind down" from all the stress, once I graduated. I had headaches and stomach symptoms for weeks afterward..... It was something I would never, ever care to repeat. And it was so much unnecessary mindgame-playing.

There------ now you have my "myth". Lol. :rotfl: