Weeding out of nursing students

[Tweety]

Do nursing instructors deliberately try to weed out students, by doing things like testing on material they haven't gone over yet, deliberately making it hard, picking on students?

My opinion was the "weeding out of students" was a myth.

The weeding out process seems to occur naturally, and the reason so many people don't make it through the program that started out, is that it's a tough, demanding, time consuming program, and whose eyes are on graduating top notch nurses who can pass NCLEX.

I do know teacher eyeball students they don't think are good clinicians and many of these cry "the teacher doesn't like me, and is out to get me". Or eyeball students that need a kick in the butt, or need a confidence boost and they feel picked on as well.

I don't think insturctors play games and try to weed students out.

I know there are bad insturctors and bad schools.

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

Gotta agree with Deb Tweety.

I don't think it's entierly a myth.

I've had trouble (in a subtle fashion) with one instructor --- and everybody else seems to love her.

I know one friend of mine was in tears because her instructor made her life living hell - but she's been one of the nicest professors I've ever known.

[BETSRN]

Sort of yes, sort of no.

let me say what I'd like to see happen. I'd like to see the weeding happen before nursing school, during pre reqs and have a harder admissions process so there wouldnt be so much failing/dropping out

It's not about the book work. I don't think the weeding out can happen until the students are actually performing nursing duties. Students are not going to come to the realization that they dislike nursing and what it is about until they are actually in the thick of it: caring for patients totally. That's when they find they can't cut it.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

There------ now you have my "myth". Lol. :rotfl:

Thanks for sharing your story. This is the reason I asked, because I hear it so often.

I try not to buy into things like "Nursing instructors are on power trips, take a disliking to certain people for no reason and try to weed out students", "BSNs dont' get enough clinicals and have no skills", "Nurses eat their young", "Nurses are so catty because it's a female dominated profession", "Male nurses students are given preferential treatment"....well you know. Even though ad nasuem people can chime in with story after story that they've seen this reality in their lives.

While I'm choosing to believe it's not a "myth" because that implies that it doesn't really happen, and obviously it does. I'm still not going to take your story and generalize it about nursing school and instructors.

I guess like too many dangerous and lazy nurses, there are too many horrible schools and insturctors.

I'd still like to think that nursing schools are primarily run by professionals with an interest in teaching and graduating nurses, and don't have a policy of trying to weed out as many students as possible. And I'm glad to hear some stories on this thread that holds true, but am very disheartened that it's not true in too many cases.

Believe this or not, my class started out with 60 students and we finished with 60 students. Didn't loose not one person. We were the first class, and probably one of the few since that this occurred.

[chattypattyCRNA2B]

Aw, Tweety. This is old news. Do I have to give you the same story you have already heard many times? Ok, here goes:

The story is about the about instructors who took an intense dislike to some students right away and rode them til they screwed up, sound familiar? Do I have to tell you about the one out to get me for something I did NOT do---and the ONLY reason I went on to graduate was the director seeing this for what it was and stopping it? Thank God for that director---she was the only one who saw the situation clearly and "saved me".

Ya know, I never lied, cheated or did anything wrong, but this gal had it in for me and did her best to outst me........

Sorry , Tweety. I am glad your experiences were so different; mine were hellish. It was like 2 years' basic training.....and truly a couple of our instructors "lurking" at every corner, waiting for us to "trip" up at the clinical areas. It was so stressful, I used to get stomach aches and diarrhea the night before each clinical rotation.

Now, I drew the line when one (a different instructor, actually)---- slapped my wrist (YES, I SAID SLAPPED MY WRIST) when I made a wrong move starting an IV on an old, confused and combative man.

I was beyond humiliated. The patient's whole family saw this. When we were alone, I told her I was NOT a child and she did NOT have my permission to slap my wrist when I screwed up.......she was not happy w/me after that point. I had to watch my back yet again...... So did many others. I was not the only "target".

We started with 36 students, graduated 16. Tell you anything?

:angryfire

The thing is, my story could probably be repeated over and over, ad- nauseum. I have heard it enough from many students, graduates and nurses all over the place---- particularly from AD programs. The BSN grads I speak to usually don't seem to be put through these same stupid paces. Seems the BSN programs treated them like adult learners. More power to them; this is how it should be.

So your belief it is a myth really makes stories like mine seem somewhat illegitimate. It strikes a nerve in me. Believe me, I am not embellishing or lying.

Nursing school ---if I had to do it over again, I doubt I would bother. Yes, it was that bad. They used to love to tell us "we were theirs" til the day we graduated. They meant it. One girl washed out very late in the program. We lost several in the 4th semester. I was so tired of being on my toes all the time.

So yea, I finished with a 4.0, glad to have made it, and very proud. But I needed 3 weeks just to "wind down" from all the stress, once I graduated. I had headaches and stomach symptoms for weeks afterward..... It was something I would never, ever care to repeat. And it was so much unnecessary mindgame-playing.

There------ now you have my "myth". Lol. :rotfl:

{{{{{{((((shudder))))}}}}}} :barf01: makes me sick just thinking about it! My nerves are already on edge because I start this fall and I think they just got worse.

One good thing is that through all this you were able to maintain a 4.0! That is very commendable. How many hours of studying did you put in?

[BETSRN]

Thanks for sharing your story. This is the reason I asked, because I hear it so often.

I try not to buy into things like "Nursing instructors are on power trips, take a disliking to certain people for no reason and try to weed out students", "BSNs dont' get enough clinicals and have no skills", "Nurses eat their young", "Nurses are so catty because it's a female dominated profession", "Male nurses students are given preferential treatment"....well you know. Even though ad nasuem people can chime in with story after story that they've seen this reality in their lives.

I'd still like to think that nursing schools are primarily run by professionals with an interest in teaching and graduating nurses, and don't have a policy of trying to weed out as many students as possible. And I'm glad to hear some stories on this thread that holds true, but am very disheartened that it's not true in too many cases.

Believe this or not, my class started out with 60 students and we finished with 60 students. Didn't loose not one person. We were the first class, and probably one of the few since that this occurred.

Regardless of what you would like to think, the "myths" that you mention above are real. It is highly unusual that you graduate with the same number who started. That's quite an achievement. Of course there are good, professional instructors and quality programs. No one is saying there are not. But despite the good ones, there are probably programs that are like what has been described. I went to a quality program and we had one instructor who rode people so I suppose it was a natural selection process. That particular instructpr was toung, but as long as you were prepared for your clinical experience (by reading about the illness, studying the treatments needed,etc) you could screw up all you could and she would help you through it and show you the way. But I also know (from my now 20 years experience as an RN) that those who left would never have made it in nursing.

Nurses do "eat their young." Maybe that's a female trait, I don't know. I would also agree that most BSN programs do NOT prepare their students for the clinical component as well as the diploma or ADN programs. I work with students and nurses who are part of all of these programs. Book learning will only get you so far. I also think (having had three in our class 25 years ago) that male nursing students do have a much rougher time of it. Only two of the three in my class finished.

It is my humble opinion that many new grads burnm out and leave nursing because they have NOT been adequately prepared for a very demanding profession. Some young people do not want to work and nursing is not the place to be if you're always going to be blaming the other guy.

[grinnurse, RN]

I think that sometimes it's not only the instructors "weeding" people out of nursing school, but, alot of times it's the students themselves that do it!! They either are really young (this does not apply to all) and not committed to the whole process or they just don't get it.

I do however see where they do "weed" them out. But ya know, for some that were weeded out, it was a "Good Thing". Like the other poster said, they wouldn't have made it in the profession.

[SmilingBluEyes]

{{{{{{((((shudder))))}}}}}} :barf01: makes me sick just thinking about it! My nerves are already on edge because I start this fall and I think they just got worse.

One good thing is that through all this you were able to maintain a 4.0! That is very commendable. How many hours of studying did you put in?

I REALLY, REALLY hesitated putting my story here. You see, it's kind of like old mothers telling birth horror stories to newly expectant mommies. It just scares people, and usually is not helpful or useful.

I have NO desire to scare or discourage new students/about-to-be-students from nursing school. Every school experience is not like mine, I know. But I have been around and in nursing 8 years now. And I have to say, it's not unheard-of or uncommon to hear horror stories like mine. Enough for me to say with utter conviction that some (EMPHASIS ON "SOME") instructors DO have targets and work very hard to weed them out, anyway they can.

I am a very strong person; a very stubborn one---most of you around here know this about me. That is what got me through nursing school. My tenacity and desire to be a nurse is all that had me going through the 2 years of absolute BS and horizontal passive-aggressiveness we were subjected to. If it was not perpetrated upon us directly, it was certainly something they (instructors) did to each other often enough. It did NOT help that two of them were working on advanced degrees (NP programs with their OWN clinical requirements) and very strung-out, tired and overwrought most of the time. It was unfair, considering as a returning student (most of us were), we were PAYING the BILLS, like ANY adult learner would, and very motivated. I feel we were cheated. It was all so unnecessary and I definately took my lessons and moved on as soon as was possible.

Like I said, I did not want to discourage or scare off potential nursing students. I do know it's not like this everywhere. But please, do not dismiss as "myth" what is a real experience for others. Just because you yourself have not been thorugh it, does not make it untrue. It does happen, and has for years. It's enough to make many never want to try. Like I said, it's just my stubborn, tenacious and difficult personality that kept me afloat and saw graduation. I knew several "washouts" who excelled in different programs and came back as nurses a couple years later after I graduated---so like I said, not every program is so rough.

As to number of hours I studied? I can' t count---it was a lot. We had 100-question tests every other Monday, not to mention pages of careplans and class projects thrown in there----- and those tests were intense----covering 100s of pages of material. NCLEX study books became my best friends

Also, I developed a system of rapid scanning and studying that worked for me and I scored well on tests. I learned to play their little games, and did well on care plans and class assignments. The problem was, each instructor had her own "game" and the rules changed from time to time---always a twist in there.

But I learned how to work it, and did my damndest. I am glad it's all over, that is all. If/when I ever really go back and work on a BSN/MSN (which I would like to) I will chose carefully, because never again, will I subject myself to the treatment we received in nursing school. The one RN-BSN program I tried, was more of the same sort of game-playing and such. I was not up for that, again. Particularly not with my experience and current age. Nope. If/when I do this, it will in all liklihood be ONLINE. I am a motivated and hardworking learner, and I love academics and the whole process----as long as you are straight-up with me, that is.

And one more thing to those of you who say weeding out needs to be done: I will not, nor cannot, argue that. But the process needs to be fair, consistent and reliable---not manipulative, mean-spirited, passive-aggressive and personal of nature. That is all I can say about that. :stone

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Regardless of what you would like to think, the "myths" that you mention above are real. It is highly unusual that you graduate with the same number who started. That's quite an achievement. Of course there are good, professional instructors and quality programs. No one is saying there are not. But despite the good ones, there are probably programs that are like what has been described. I went to a quality program and we had one instructor who rode people so I suppose it was a natural selection process. That particular instructpr was toung, but as long as you were prepared for your clinical experience (by reading about the illness, studying the treatments needed,etc) you could screw up all you could and she would help you through it and show you the way. But I also know (from my now 20 years experience as an RN) that those who left would never have made it in nursing.

Nurses do "eat their young." Maybe that's a female trait, I don't know. I would also agree that most BSN programs do NOT prepare their students for the clinical component as well as the diploma or ADN programs. I work with students and nurses who are part of all of these programs. Book learning will only get you so far. I also think (having had three in our class 25 years ago) that male nursing students do have a much rougher time of it. Only two of the three in my class finished.

It is my humble opinion that many new grads burnm out and leave nursing because they have NOT been adequately prepared for a very demanding profession. Some young people do not want to work and nursing is not the place to be if you're always going to be blaming the other guy.

For the record, I no longer think it's a myth that nursing schools deliberately try to weed out their young. Anymore than I think it's a myth some of the things you mentioned....like young people don't want to work.

I just don't generalize and say "nurses eat their young". For every story of nurses eating their young, I can tell you a story of nurses supporting nurses.

Also, we have to ADN grads on my unit. One, they 25 year old, hit the ground running, eager, hardworking already handling a full load after just a few weeks (still on orientation though). The 45 year old, spends more time on the cell phone, can't handle but half a load, can never be found...lazy to the max. But I don't expect ADN's or BSN's ready to hit the floor. Nursing schools have tried to address the "reality shock" that they are going to feel, maybe they aren't doing a good job at preparing them for that.

Anyway, I just don't like generalizations. And while I don't want to discount horror stories like Debs, and I'm no longer calling it a myth, I'm not calling it absolute truth for nursing schools either. Which is why I started this thread, not to prove myself correct, but to gather information.

So I was wrong, it's not a myth.

[SmilingBluEyes]

That is what I love about you Tweety. Always willing to update your assumptions after you have considered the facts or data.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Deb you said "But please, do not dismiss as "myth" what is a real experience for others."

If you read my initial post without a gut reaction there was no dismissal. I offered my opinion, acknowledging that there were bad instructors and schools out there.

I know longer think of it as a myth. If you read into my question that I wasn't believing that it was happening, I apologize for my lack of clarity. If I believed 100% it to be a myth and was smug in my beliefs I never would have asked. I was questioning my beliefs and am open to changing them.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

That is what I love about you Tweety. Always willing to update your assumptions after you have considered the facts or data.

Thanks Deb, I was writing my response to you as you were writing to me, and I think you are understanding me.

[SmilingBluEyes]

I saw a trend following your "myth" wording, Tweety.

So many following saying "yes it needs to be done". I saw people running with it a bit------ that "myth" assumption----- and it was getting to me, I admit.

I also admit right here; I don't know how all experiences are. I will say, I have talked to a lot of nurses and students through the years about their experiences; I wanted to know how unique (or not) mine were. Diploma, BSN and ADN students and grads have given me a lot to think about. Enough to draw some tentative conclusions. The "game-playing" mean-spirited "weeding out" process is most common in the ADN arena. Few, if any, BSN grads had a story even similar to mine to tell. Diploma students shared an even different experience, one I would have loved to have, literally living and breathing nursing and its essence in their training. But that is a dying phase.....

Why so different for ADN students? I dont' know. It's not like I have conducted a formal study or anything. I can only draw on what people have shared with me.

Am I being clear on my concerns here? Hope so. I respect your always-present willingness to listen and update your assumptions. It's what I find most endearing about you.