We can't eat

Emergent, RN · Aug 13, 2023

Apartments are pretty cheap where you live. Here in Washington State rents are out of sight.

I'm a landlord and I keep my rents low... Less than 1500 dollars a month for three bedroom houses with yards. According to Zillow I could get over 2000 for them. But I have stable families in there, one of them dog sits for me so gets a discount on the rent.

Unfortunately, large entities such as Walmart have invested in apartment buildings. They have depersonalized it. Their renters are widgets. There also has been quite a bit of speculation in the real estate market during a boom time, and people take on too much debt to buy investment property. Another factor in many states is that it is becoming more and more difficult to evict unsuitable tenants, adding a lot of cost and risk to the landlords. There are a lot of losers out there who will really screw over property owners.

My cousin lives in Seattle and airbnbs out a couple of rooms in her place. She told me that because of the housing shortage in Seattle, they have limited people to two units now. She told me that some prosperous Tech workers are buying condos and just Airbnbing it instead of renting it out to regular people who need housing. They just have someone managing the whole thing and they rake in the money.

Of course Seattle has a huge homeless problem, and a lot of that is fueled by drugs and alcohol. Many of those people are not good prospects for someone who wants a stable person in there property. But, there is a segment of the population that is having to move into their cars because they just can't afford rent. That's becoming more and more common.

If the hospitals were smart they would also invest in apartment buildings for their workers. I've heard they do that in some locations.

Caytie King · Aug 16, 2023

I live in Denver and love my work at a large academic hospital. I would like to continue working here, but I can not afford housing anymore, so I am planning to leave and look for work and housing somewhere more affordable if that exists. I can not pay my bills and support my family on the wages of a bedside nurse UNLESS maybe if I work 5 - 6 12-hour shifts a week, and then my health and well-being are sacrificed. It is truly very sad that as a good, hard-working nurse who loves her job, I can no longer afford to stay at bedside nursing.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Aug 16, 2023

vintagegal said:

Nurses: we can't eat nor can we pay our rent. Why is it that inflation has caused such an uproar in our economy that a basic apartment 5 years ago costed 630 dollars and now it's upwards of 1200, 2200 in some areas. That, coupled with keeping the lights on, paying for a car, gas, other incidentals and a lagging wage has me absolutely concerned for the future of nursing. It's time to wake up! We are not being compensated fairly at all. Just think of all those ICD and CPT codes that are making these companies booku bucks while we struggle to survive. I don't want to drive a Bentley or live in a mansion. I just want to be able to afford basic necessities and have a good quality of life. Nurses wages and NP wages have stalled significantly in the last 5 years while everything else has gone sky high. Corporate salary increases of 2%?? What a joke, inflation is the highest it's ever been. And to resign your lease to find it's pretty much doubled is a catastrophe. I can't afford to buy a home, I can't afford much of anything. Meanwhile there is some airhead on social media showing off a new lip gloss and she gets paid to do it. I've worked through Covid, I've worked through every challenge in my life, and now I'm just wondering what's next.

Why would you resign your lease without having another apartment lined up first? If it was because of a rent increase that is less than what you've found elsewhere can you ask to stay, say you changed your mind? The landlord might be OK with that as having a known reliable tenant is easier than searching for another to replace you. What do you have to lose?

Yes I've heard rents have risen dramatically in some areas partly due to the covid laws where rent wasn't required and also corporate interests and private equity like BlackRock have been buying up houses and apartments for rentals. But they may start dumping them now due to the high interest rates, but they will do it in a controlled fashion to keep prices up. I don't believe the Federal Reserve is done raising interest rates. Now is not the time to buy a house. I expect home prices will fall in many areas as the economy worsens.

Inflation will only get worse, especially food and oil and gas. Tyson and Smithfield are both closing meat plants as they didn't make enough profits, while last year there were record fires of meat plants. I believe this is all part of the WEF, Word Economic Forum's Great Reset of don't eat meat, eat bugs instead! For real check it out! Also they say we will own nothing and be happy! They actually have this on their website it is not a conspiracy theory. They want 15 minute cities with electric vehicles and a digital dollar and social credit like China where they can cut you off if you do something they found socially wrong. Already happened in Canada when Trudeau had the banks freeze truckers' accounts and even some people who gave nominal donations! And a bank in the UK was caught closing people's accounts if they saw something objectionable on their social media. With the Ukraine war, Russia's tankers were attacked spiking oil prices as well as OPEC and Saudi Arabia cutting oil production, and since Biden cut oil production in the US; we will be facing more energy inflation in gas and oil.

So stock up on food if you can; meat if you have a freezer and canned goods. Use thrift stores, Dollar store and Aldi's. On YouTube, Economic Ninja and I Allegedly both give informed updates for what is going on with the banks, economy etc.

Lastly personal finance is key! Deal with your Debt and Your Credit Score by Liz Weston, Women and Money by Suze Orman, and Personal Finance for Dummies by Eric Tyson as well as Smart Women Finish Rich by David Bach are a few books that helped me in my journey.

As an NP, not sure if you will qualify for the PSLF, Public Student Loan Forgiveness program as it depends on working for a non-profit and until recently had a 98-99% failure rate. Also, many times it results in negative amortization where if you are paying less than the interest each month then that leftover interest capitalizes and the loans grow larger so if you don't qualify for forgiveness you could literally die with the loans! Don't know your situation but you mentioned hundreds of thousands in student loans in a previous post. You may want to check out Dave Ramsey's advice to get out from under that kind of debt load vs relying on the PSLF coming thru down the road. Republicans have tried to cancel these programs so they aren't a given.

DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN · Aug 18, 2023

Emergent said:

If the hospitals were smart they would also invest in apartment buildings for their workers. I've heard they do that in some locations.

When I worked in the UK there was a culture of hospital residences. Often pretty basic studio accomodation for single people but reasonable appartments and houses for families.

Not only was your accomodation a reasonable price but you were right next door to the hospital so your travel costs were nil. You could roll out of bed minutes before you were on duty and still be there on time. Plus if you were needed at short notice for overtime you were not far away.

As a young single person there were always people around for coffee or drinks in the evening. I wouldn't want to do it now but as a young singleton "living in" was very sociable. There was always somebody else on an evening off ready to go into town with you. Fun days.

Caytie King · Sep 25, 2023

Is it time for RNs to unionize? Thoughts? It has been said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. I don't know much about unions, TBH. Why not quit complaining and griping about low pay and high patient ratios and try something new?

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Sep 26, 2023

Where are you located? Pay varies widely by location.

In California, the RN pay range is $80K to $160K per year or higher. While you wouldn't be able to live in San Jose or Beverly Hills, you could certainly live on that in most other parts of the state.

"California has a significant edge when it comes to combating the nursing shortage. The state saw about 30,000 more registered nurses move in than out during the first two years of the pandemic, according to a Sept. 19 Los Angeles Times report.

There are two key factors that attract nurses to the state, nurses and industry leaders told the news outlet: workplace protections and high pay. While the state has a high cost of living, it's also the top-paying state for nurses. BLS data shows the average RN salary in the state is more than $133,000 — 50 percent higher than the national average.

Meanwhile, California is the only state to mandate specific minimum nurse staffing levels across different hospital units, which nurses credit with managing workloads and preventing burnout."

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/nursing/I-don't-know-if-I-could-work-anywhere-else-why-nurses-flock-to-california.html#:~:text=The state saw about 30%2C000,workplace protections and high pay.

Calif is short 36,000 RNs, with hospital RN vacancy rates as high as 30%

https://calmatters.org/health/2023/07/california-nursing-shortage-solution/

Travel RNs still do pretty well here, too:

https://www.hctravelnursing.com/blog/california-travel-jobs-where-cost-living-reasonable

I think the key is for RNs to have a union and to advocate for strict nurse-to-patient ratios.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Oct 27, 2023

They will pay you as little as they can, it all depends on what you will put up with. As a staff nurse I was making less with 30 years experience than when I was a new grad, when I compared todays prices with 30 years ago. I was able to switch to travelling and tripled my income. So, if you don't put up with crap wages, they do pay more. It's still unfair, but no one person can change it.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 27, 2023

FullGlass said:

Where are you located? Pay varies widely by location.

In California, the RN pay range is $80K to $160K per year or higher. While you wouldn't be able to live in San Jose or Beverly Hills, you could certainly live on that in most other parts of the state.

"California has a significant edge when it comes to combating the nursing shortage. The state saw about 30,000 more registered nurses move in than out during the first two years of the pandemic, according to a Sept. 19 Los Angeles Times report.

There are two key factors that attract nurses to the state, nurses and industry leaders told the news outlet: workplace protections and high pay. While the state has a high cost of living, it's also the top-paying state for nurses. BLS data shows the average RN salary in the state is more than $133,000 — 50 percent higher than the national average.

Meanwhile, California is the only state to mandate specific minimum nurse staffing levels across different hospital units, which nurses credit with managing workloads and preventing burnout."

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/nursing/I-don't-know-if-I-could-work-anywhere-else-why-nurses-flock-to-california.html#:~:text=The state saw about 30%2C000,workplace protections and high pay.

Calif is short 36,000 RNs, with hospital RN vacancy rates as high as 30%

https://calmatters.org/health/2023/07/california-nursing-shortage-solution/

Travel RNs still do pretty well here, too:

https://www.hctravelnursing.com/blog/california-travel-jobs-where-cost-living-reasonable

I think the key is for RNs to have a union and to advocate for strict nurse-to-patient ratios.

Well, they have both of those things in California and it appears that they still have a nursing shortage.

mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN · Oct 27, 2023

I work in an area where there are 2 teaching hosp and upwards of 5 universities in a 30 mi radius. Between students, residents, faculty, nurses and ancillary staff; plus a research park, it's definitely a landlord's market. I live about 45 mi away from work (bought when we moved here and I was a teacher) and we haven't moved.

I make decent money, now more than my husband. I know that it is rough for the newer nurses that come from out of town and have to rent. It's not a hospital issue. It's a growth issue that is a common problem now in the South (Atlanta, Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte for example) So many people are moving to other areas to get away from taxes, etc that they are causing other issues. I just read a post somewhere about someone moving from CA to either TN or KY and they are stirring stuff up.

After Covid, we are going to have a nursing shortage for a long time ?

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Oct 30, 2023

subee said:

Well, they have both of those things in California and it appears that they still have a nursing shortage.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Yes, as I stated, CA has a nursing shortage. They are also taking steps to remedy the shortage, which is more than most states are doing. In addition, CA RNs have a union. They also have strictly enforced nurse/patient ratios. If there is another state doing all of this for their RNs, please let us know what the other state(s) are, as this may help RNs looking for a new position.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 31, 2023

FullGlass said:

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Yes, as I stated, CA has a nursing shortage. They are also taking steps to remedy the shortage, which is more than most states are doing. In addition, CA RNs have a union. They also have strictly enforced nurse/patient ratios. If there is another state doing all of this for their RNs, please let us know what the other state(s) are, as this may help RNs looking for a new position.

There is nothing in this statement that means more.than it says. Despite all that California has done, we still have a shortage. That's alI am saying here. We are going to have to come up with other idea because unions and ratios aren't enough.