Video RN screaming, dragged into police car d/t refused blood draw on unconscious patient!

K9lover, ASN, RN · Sep 3, 2017

I was not referring to nurse Alex, this was a replay to a nurse who was posting about having a blood draw from having a suspected DUI herself. I was raised and educated well by my LAPD Sgt father.

K9lover, ASN, RN · Sep 3, 2017

But one is then arrested, which would fall under the policy of consented, warrant, or under arrest. Huge difference.
The patient here was not under arrest, the police did not have a warrant, and the patient was unable to consent. Oh for three there.

I was referencing an RN on this thread who was speaking of her own suspected DUI. Not this case. I actually stated in my comment that you quoted I was referencing something different. Reading comprehension, it's a wonderful thing.

Rhonda12 · Sep 3, 2017

Preface: I've seen the short version of the video but have not watched the extended version.

As a former LEO who is now on a second career as an RN, this is horrifying and heart breaking. I can think of numerous times I responded to the local ED to assist nursing staff/security staff with all manner of incidents. We worked as a team. We had policies about blood draws/restraints/arrests, etc in place and everyone did what was necessary. This "officer" disgusts me. I wonder what else he has been internally investigated for over the years. (I say this because I worked with a handful of guys who were on power trips like this guy, and though it is hard to speak up, you have to if you are truly a "good cop.") I'm glad SLCPD handed this investigation to another agency--though personally I would have had the state investigate. I commend the other nurses for speaking up but for not going hands on as that would have escalated an already horrible situation. On the other hand, I'm disgusted by the other police officers on the scene for not stepping in and stopping their "brother officer." That thin blue line can be an amazing thing and a horrifying excuse. May RN Alex find peace knowing she did the right thing, may her hospital stand by her side legally/financially and may this so-called officer be prosecuted for assault. Peace be with us all.

Wuzzie · Sep 3, 2017

Thank you so much for posting. I have noticed that on other sites there are precious few LEOs saying anything and I find that disturbing. Your unique background makes your viewpoint particularly interesting.

Editorial Team / Admin · Sep 3, 2017

I was referencing an RN on this thread who was speaking of her own suspected DUI. Not this case. I actually stated in my comment that you quoted I was referencing something different. Reading comprehension, it's a wonderful thing.

Quoting the post to which you're replying is a wonderful thing. If you post without reference in a thread that already has well over 100 replies and nearing 200, context included in replies is needed.

operations · Sep 3, 2017

Thank you, Dainah!
The bit about the loosening standards for psych screens is scary. Out of curiosity, who normally does these psych screenings? Someone with the police force? Or do they contract these screenings out to a mental health provider in the area? How are they "loosened"? Because someone else (cheaper) is doing them or because the process isn't as rigorous and they are skipping steps? Or are they just rubber stamping the applicant's paperwork? This has potential for worsening the reputation of policemen and women, putting the community in danger, and does a great disservice to an applicant who passes the psych screening who probably shouldn't (by exposing them to stressors they can't handle and, in some cases, would not have enough awareness about their own mental health to know how these stressors affect them).

Honestly don't know, but I wonder if anyone here has experience with that? Like how the psych screening is conducted. I know a freind that was turned a way from Chicago PD for a very stupid thing like a legal dispute with a bank or something, but not talked to anyone in depth about the psych part. It doesn't seem like Chicago is short of people that want to work there. The post above was based off of a long discussion after meeting a couple former Stl police on a 5 hr train ride to Chicago.

Edit: Check out this very thorough and eye opening answer on quora I found

What kind of psychological testing do the police take? - Quora

Apparently, they are given an exam consisting personality questions to see if you are "a good fit" for the role of police officer. The exam is given by a higher up in the department, not a psychologist. And only he ever sees the answers to the exam. Since they never show anyone's score, the theory is that they just pass who they want regardless of the answers. Seems like a great way to make sure you can disqualify people who don't drink the kool-aid, screen out minorities or hire your incompetant wife beating son, etc.

robred · Sep 3, 2017

This happened five weeks ago: July 26th.

Questions:

-Why was there no action by anyone in the justice system for five weeks?

-Why was there action taken only after this was released to the media?

-Who released the body cam to the media?

-Will the Lieutenant, who ordered the Detective to place her under arrest, be investigated? Does he have a superior who ordered him to give that order?

operations · Sep 3, 2017

Preface: I've seen the short version of the video but have not watched the extended version.
As a former LEO who is now on a second career as an RN, this is horrifying and heart breaking. I can think of numerous times I responded to the local ED to assist nursing staff/security staff with all manner of incidents. We worked as a team. We had policies about blood draws/restraints/arrests, etc in place and everyone did what was necessary. This "officer" disgusts me. I wonder what else he has been internally investigated for over the years. (I say this because I worked with a handful of guys who were on power trips like this guy, and though it is hard to speak up, you have to if you are truly a "good cop.") I'm glad SLCPD handed this investigation to another agency--though personally I would have had the state investigate. I commend the other nurses for speaking up but for not going hands on as that would have escalated an already horrible situation. On the other hand, I'm disgusted by the other police officers on the scene for not stepping in and stopping their "brother officer." That thin blue line can be an amazing thing and a horrifying excuse. May RN Alex find peace knowing she did the right thing, may her hospital stand by her side legally/financially and may this so-called officer be prosecuted for assault. Peace be with us all.

When something like this happens where an officer oversteps his bounds, intimidates, or acts suspiciously, should you also call the state to intervene? My thinking was someone should have called another jurisdiction as soon as suspicious behavior with the LEO was noted (demanding blood from the victim of the crash with out a warrent, the police's connection to the cause of the accident). This should have happened especially during the physical confrontation, refraining from calling another department for help wasn't the best judgement by security etc.

heron, ASN, RN · Sep 3, 2017

The brief story I read online implied that the hospital security people did nothing at the time to help her. I hate to say it ... but if I were her, I'd be talking to an attorney and preparing for a couple of lawsuits -- against the police AND against the hospital that didn't help her. (unless those people step up "big time" now)

Obstructing a police officer during the course of an arrest - even an illegal one that will eventually get thrown out - is a stupid idea and will either get you arrested yourself, or shot. The liability for this action is all on the police.

Rhonda12 · Sep 3, 2017

I think with jurisdiction, another department couldn't/wouldn't respond unless it was all call by the department on scene. For example, if there was a large fight in a bar an officer/dispatcher would put out an "all call" for help which meant any officer in the area hearing it would respond to the location to help, even though not in their jurisdiction. Where I was an LEO there were so many suburbs and various PDs that jurisdiction was an every day/every call consideration as different blocks and different sides of the street could be owned/held/belong to another PD. (Sometimes a good thing if you didn't want to write up yet another accident report!)

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think another PD would have responded without an official request from the the involved PD. Not only that but who would think to call another PD? Especially if the other officers on scene aren't doing anything to step in.

Rhonda12 · Sep 3, 2017

When something like this happens where an officer oversteps his bounds, intimidates, or acts suspiciously, should you also call the state to intervene? My thinking was someone should have called another jurisdiction as soon as suspicious behavior with the LEO was noted (demanding blood from the victim of the crash with out a warrent, the police's connection to the cause of the accident). This should have happened especially during the physical confrontation, refraining from calling another department for help wasn't the best judgement by security etc.

I think with jurisdiction, another department couldn't/wouldn't respond unless it was all call by the department on scene. For example, if there was a large fight in a bar an officer/dispatcher would put out an "all call" for help which meant any officer in the area hearing it would respond to the location to help, even though not in their jurisdiction. Where I was an LEO there were so many suburbs and various PDs that jurisdiction was an every day/every call consideration as different blocks and different sides of the street could be owned/held/belong to another PD. (Sometimes a good thing if you didn't want to write up yet another accident report!)

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think another PD would have responded without an official request from the the involved PD. Not only that but who would think to call another PD? Especially if the other officers on scene aren't doing anything to step in.

MunoRN, RN · Sep 3, 2017

I think with jurisdiction, another department couldn't/wouldn't respond unless it was all call by the department on scene. For example, if there was a large fight in a bar an officer/dispatcher would put out an "all call" for help which meant any officer in the area hearing it would respond to the location to help, even though not in their jurisdiction. Where I was an LEO there were so many suburbs and various PDs that jurisdiction was an every day/every call consideration as different blocks and different sides of the street could be owned/held/belong to another PD. (Sometimes a good thing if you didn't want to write up yet another accident report!)
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think another PD would have responded without an official request from the the involved PD. Not only that but who would think to call another PD? Especially if the other officers on scene aren't doing anything to step in.

There actually was another law enforcement agency present at the time that failed to intervene, which is where there's been questions in coverage of the incident about whether she has a valid complaint against them.

While many hospitals staff their ED with in-house security, some instead use staff from a local law enforcement agency who are acting as officers of that agency while in the ED. In this case, it was the Utah U police who staffed the ED room, and in Utah these officers are considered a co-equal municipality to city PD, county sherrifs, and is a branch of the state troopers/police. Had this been a normal arrest, there's no real reason to have expected them to get involved, although this clearly wasn't a normal arrest. Watching the video, officer payne was clearly upset at the hospital administrator who was on speakerphone on the nurse's phone, officer Payne initially grabbed for the phone after the administrator stated that he shouldn't be threatening a nurse, when it became apparent he couldn't attack the administrator through the phone, he then attacked the nurse, at which point it certainly could be argued that the PD with jurisdiction over the ED should have stepped in.