Published
okay,
so... "only time can tell," right??
well... "time" has brought me to a frustrating point in my new job. the things that i am frustrated about are things that i could not have really been warned about because no one has ever been in this position with my doc. also, as a new np you don't know to think about some of these things... so hopefully, these considerations will help you newbies in your quest for jobs.
for fun, we will refer to my supervising md as "gd"...
some background info:
a) after graduating in december, i started work for a cardiology clinic of 9 mds (and i was the first mlp)
b) we use an emr system for documentation and billing
c) we just merged with a large corporation
d) i was hired primarily for a rural office with gd as the only md that comes to that office, but it was understood (and in my contract) that i was hired for the whole clinic/group of mds
e) gd works at both the rural and not-as-rural offices, more so at the rural one... and then has patients/procedures at 3 area hospitals
f) there is another np working for one cardiologist, strictly in the office setting (her preference)
g) gd has no spouse, sleeps on our office couch, and is a self-martyr
h) the medical director of the group was a clinical preceptor during school and loves me. i know that he will support any change i need and any problem i have.
i) gd is excellent at what she does, is a huge patient advocate, and puts her patients above all. and i mean... "all..." to the point that i think she uses her "patient involvement" as a crutch.
my frustration:
1. gd would rather see patients than do her documentation/billing
a. gd gripes about not making much money last year or having a life but she is a self-martyr and i made too many sacrifices in school to be making work-related sacrifices now
b. she pressed for our offices to get the emr system and she does not utilize it. instead, she just prints out a med list... jots down a few notes... and throws it in a folder for me to stress out over when i see the patient in a follow-up visit, when a pcp calls for consultation report, surgical clearance, etc. because she didn't document in the emr - she's a computer nerd! it's not a "speed" issue. all of the other doctors in the group are older than her, much less computer savvy and still manage to document and bill each patient as they are seen. she has office visits and electronic notes incomplete since 2005!!!! most are within the last 8-16 months, but still!! this is where her lost revenue is... stocked up in her office! she knows she needs to do the notes, but has been saying she needs to do them for months and hasn't done it. i am not about to do her documentation from god-knows when. no other self-respecting mlp would. right??
2. gd was not ready for a mid-level provider
a. she swears that she knows better than anyone else the role of a midlevel... but she doesnt. during the mornings, while she's doing procedures (and i have been waiting on hospital privileges), i answer phone calls and handle "nursing duties." bullcrap. i should be seeing follow-ups, at least!
b. she will not "let go" of her patients... she says they are possessive of her... wrongo! she is possessive of them!!
c. the documentation thing... someone cannot... in their right mind follow behind her and see patients. it pisses me off daily when i try to pull up a note to see what was done at the last visit and show nothing documented for >1 yr.
d. her schedule... she does procedures in the morning 30 min away from our rural office and schedules patients 15 min apart starting at 1:00 thru 5:30-5:45. she's generally late, slow about seeing patients, doesnt document well, talks too much (inappropriately so), allows herself to get distracted (pulled out of the room, answering her cell for hospital calls), and doesn't see this as a problem. if she does, she may make a comment about "oh, i'm tired of staying late" or whatever... but doesn't ever do anything about it. and we're stuck there until 7-8:00 pm... routinely! the office opens at 9.
e. instead of being supportive and not worrying about me being a "competitor" she thinks that if i document better billing than her, it makes her look bad (duh!!)
f. i am trying to build good habits and it is very difficult with her negative, poor-me, self-martyrdom, and "i don't give a crap about the rules" attitude
g. plus, she has upset a lot of the community pcps (that govern the local hospital) because she isolates herself
3. i feel like the "rural" office and gd are holding me back from full potential
a. the rural office does not have nuclear testing, our own lab, or other ancillary services that i can readily get reimbursed for. the other np functioning in other office billed for $32k in feb alone and will get $10k of that as salary/incentives. i should have the same opportunities.
b. gd can make up for this loss with her procedures and duties in the other office, where as i cannot. but, she gets a larger percentage of the bonuses i am eligible for... so you'd expect her to be more supportive. right?
(bonus structure example: np billed for $32k in feb. take out minimal overhead and np monthly salary... what's left over is divvied up 70/30 at the end of the quarter. md takes 70, np take 30. longer np with larger corporation, bigger np percentage becomes and smaller md percentage.) i was told by the ceo himself that within the second 6 months of being there, my salary would become "meaningless." woohoo! :)
c. gd is concerned about me making her look bad if my documentation and billing practices are better than hers
d. over the next couple of weeks, i will be spending time with the other np and other partners in the group (which by the way, gd is not a partner), and gd did not think that i should do that. she wants to control me all by herself.
e. when i met with the ceo about my contract, she was upset because i did not ask her permission to go talk with him (she didn't tell me... she told the office mgr who told me). i think she was worried about what i was going to tell him!! in this meeting, by the way... i told him that i was getting to a point of utter frustration where i wanted to leave if it didn't improve. and i love what i am doing... but she's gotta improve for me to stay!
okay... so, there are probably more bits and pieces of the story... but i'm tired of thinking about it. i just don't think it was fair for a new np to be put in such a pile of crap... however, i can't really blame anyone because nobody knew it was so bad. i don't know how to help her. i don't have the experience and i don't think it should be my responsibility to "change" her... because i don't know that she will ever change. i just want to go to work... and be done... and come home. i know that healthcare is a 24/7 business, but my family has to come first. then work.
i feel stuck. there are not many np positions, let alone acnp positions around this area... but there is enough need in the entire group for me to keep a job. i just don't think my current position is right for me. at least not right now.
I've really liked seeing the way you handled this difficult situation. When you got frustrated you communicated, got support, and worked out a plan. That can be hard when you're new - as you mentioned you don't want to be viewed as "difficult". Obviously they value your contribution and want to keep you over this provider that has been a problem in the past.
I hope that if I find myself in a similar situation as a new NP I'm able to take the steps you took toward resolving this problem. The stepwise approach to orientation also seems like a logical way to grow as a new practitioner.
Thanks!
I have been following your posts for a while now, it is such a great thing that this board is here and people like you who take the time to post concerns/problems and resolutions is such a wonderful asset to us readers out here in internet land. so I want to take the time to say thank you and good luck!!! and keep us posted!!
Daisy, I was not in the exact same situation but in a similarly frustrating one as a new NP. I was also supported and recruited by the medical director, but a MD in the clinic saw me as some type of threat and also aired her prejudiced views on roles of the midlevel which was very demeaning.
Of course as a newbie I had many of the same concerns and frustrations as you did, and no you cannot change somebody like GD (or the self martyr in my case either).
I think you got a great resolution to this, I would focus on making peace with this woman GD and by that I mean just get along in a civil manner. Focus on learning and contributing. Try to avoid bringing this up again, you want to look like a team player while being privately aware she's unlikely to ever change.
So don't let her or anyone else push you into frustration that you second guess yourself or do something rash. It's hard but just DON'T sink to her level.
I got support and mentoring from the other doctors after making peace with the self-martyr at my clinic and just keep a low profile around her. It's worked out well so far even though I know I can never fully trust her and she'll always have that prejudice against mid levels, it rarely affects my daily work life.
I hope things improve they seem to be already!
I am also a new grad, I actually graduated last May (2007) and started my first job in October. I started working for a rural health clinic and I was so happy. I was promised exactly what I wanted and I believe that I was told what I wanted to hear. In school I was not taught how to deal with pts that made you feel uncomfortable due to pain management or pts who made you feel as if they were not there you would not be there. I have actually been followed down a hall while a pt spoke to me in a very unprofessional way (that is an under statement) because the doctor gave him Darvocet and Lortab. Another problem is that I was told that I would work in there clinic that is approx 15 mins from my house or another clinic (there are a number of clinics) that was 20 mins from my house which was awesome because I have 2 school age children. Since then every month I have driven close to 2000 miles a month. They do pay mileage, but gas is close to $4 so mileage is a joke and besides I wanted to be close to my children, however I am usually 1 hour or more away from kids (one way). i am so frustrated and disappointed. I respect the way you handled your problem and situation. It is encouraging. I just feel that this decision to advance my degree was not the best:scrying:
I am also a new grad, I actually graduated last May (2007) and started my first job in October. I started working for a rural health clinic and I was so happy. I was promised exactly what I wanted and I believe that I was told what I wanted to hear. In school I was not taught how to deal with pts that made you feel uncomfortable due to pain management or pts who made you feel as if they were not there you would not be there. I have actually been followed down a hall while a pt spoke to me in a very unprofessional way (that is an under statement) because the doctor gave him Darvocet and Lortab. Another problem is that I was told that I would work in there clinic that is approx 15 mins from my house or another clinic (there are a number of clinics) that was 20 mins from my house which was awesome because I have 2 school age children. Since then every month I have driven close to 2000 miles a month. They do pay mileage, but gas is close to $4 so mileage is a joke and besides I wanted to be close to my children, however I am usually 1 hour or more away from kids (one way). i am so frustrated and disappointed. I respect the way you handled your problem and situation. It is encouraging. I just feel that this decision to advance my degree was not the best:scrying:
Unfortunately you have stumbled onto a situation that many NPPs regret. There are some (I'm not going to say a lot) of rural health clinics out there that are very unethical. There is a special payment that the government gives to a rural health clinic if they employ a NPP. I haven't seen exact numbers but I have heard it can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Typically the clinic will hire an NPP at a low but reasonable salary with the promise of a bonus for patients seen. They then move you around from clinic to clinic so that the clinic achieves its 50% NPP staffing. They tend to give the NPP little or no patients so that they can never get a bonus. Usually the physician are not interested in mentoring but in cramming their schedule full so that they can see more patients.
Warning signs:
If they are vague about where you will work.
If there is high turnover
If the same job is posted month after month (many of these run the same ad since they know they will need fresh fodder when people quit)
Usually the local NPPs know about these practices and are happy to share. For more on rural health clinics:
http://www.raconline.org/info_guides/clinics/rhcfaq.php#financialreturn
There are also many fine rural health clinics (some owned by NPs and PAs) that do a great job serving rural populations. The few that traffic in NPP misery give the rest a bad name.
David Carpenter, PA-C
David is correct. There are many clinics that practice illegally/fraudently. RUN from those.
I have been most fortunate to not be associated with clinics such as this. Out of the 5 that I started, only one was questionable later on and that was after I left.
I've spent the majority of my NP career in rural clinics. So, keep searching, check with other NPs, be sure you have a written contract after negotiations that benefit YOU. It can be done; contentment in a rural health clinic.
i feel much better about things because i know how he feels and know that he is now aware of some key issues. i'm anxious for the corporation to get in the rural clinic and do their thing, make the changes, and see some changes. i guess we'll just have to see how it goes...
daisyrn, this is great news! congrats on approaching this in such a logical, mature manner. keep us posted on your progress.
dana
well, things may be changing today... *crosses her fingers and says a little prayer*... join me won't you??? :bowingpur: this week was my first week with my new schedule, right?
well... monday, i was with gd. tuesday, i "rounded" with her in the rural hospital on 1 patient and she gave me no sort of orientation to the computer system, how to find her patients that she's consulted on, or any direction what so ever. i tried to call it to get them to set it all up where i could just log in and see her patient lists. well, its not working. so, i told her she would need to let me know which patients she wants me to see. simple enough, right? tuesday afternoon, we have clinic. i ask her, "what are we going to do about rounds tomorrow because i have to be at the larger hospital by 9am for credentialing orientation?" she said, "i will be doing my rounds early, so i'll get them done before you'd have a chance." okay. so, this means... "she will be doing rounds," right?
wednesday (2 days ago) rolls around and this is my day for the credentials orientation and my day in clinic with the medical director (md). i do not do hospital rounds because why?? she will be doing rounds. okay, so i go through a wonderful clinic rotation with the medical director and we finish early. she happened to be in that office on wednesday doing device checks (which i do not serve any purpose to her with devices). she noticed we finished early... i did not ask her permission to leave. (remember the "control over me" issue?) the md and i finished our day early. it was my day with him. i had checked to ensure she had no pending office visits i could help her with and i made sure that i had no emails from the rural office regarding pending labs i had ordered monday/tuesday.
thursday (yest), i get up and go by the office early to ensure i do not have any sticky notes on my desk or lab results available. then i make rounds because i have time and that's what i think she'd want me to do. well, there is just the 1 patient and the 1 that came in on tuesday was going to be transferred to the va while i was there, so i just figured i didn't need to see that patient because she would have to do the dc summary or just let the hospitalist handle it (because i am still learning at this point. i have only had 1 day of "orientation" there and didn't feel like i should be expected to be doing dc summaries, etc. yet). so, i saw my one patient, wrote a note and left to go to the larger office with the md for clinic. we finish early again, but this time, i was going to the larger hospital to do a consult with him because it was an interesting patient, after he finished a cath. so, in the meantime, the office super came up to me and said we needed to talk. great.
she and i went to her office and she told me that gd had thrown a fit and called her again griping this morning. she said i was not following up on labs, nor was i making hospital rounds. i clarified the fact that gd said she was going to do rounds on wed morning while i was in my meeting and that no, i did not follow up on labs on wed because i know that if i had an abnormal value, the nurse would have called me, emailed me, or otherwise. plus, we are in an outpatient setting and if i were really worried about a routine lab value, i would have ordered it stat or had the patient go to the hospital. worst case, i was going to address the lab results on friday when i am scheduled to be with her again. (whoopie.) and, i told her about my going to the office early thurs am to look for lab results/notes to address. then... gd proceeded to say the most profound statement yet to the office super! "i don't think its working out..." wooooohooooo. and she asked the office super to let the md know she didn't think it was working out.
so, first off, i had to call her to see what she did for our icu patient. when i called her, she updated me on him and then said, "so, i guess you didn't have time to see anyone else?" i replied... "i didn't know there was anyone else to see. and i was told that the other patient was being transferred today, so i didn't see him." she said, "no, there are 5 over there now." i replied, "well, i didn't know... i still can't look up your patients and thought you were going to tell me if you had more consults." she just maintained her passive aggressiveness and played it off like it was no big deal (after she had already made it one.)... uuuuuuuggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh! i am tired of this.
so when i met up with md at the hospital, i told him that he needed to know something and gave him a brief synopsis. i told him about the issue with the hospital and how i was trying to do the right thing. he thinks her behavior and lack of communication with me is ridiculous and unacceptable. he had already scheduled a meeting with the ceo today and said that he would find out exactly what their immediate plan for the rural office is and let me know. i am praying that today, they pull me out of the rural office. i have no more energy for her and her juvenile behaviors. i just want to do the job i was hired to do, without added and unnecessary drama. i sent the ceo a quick email just reminding him he asked me to let him know if i felt kickbacks from gd and said, "the problems are still there, they are seemingly worse, and i am feeling repercutions of my coming forward about her practice because she is falsifying information to my office super and creating a very negative and unfavorable workplace for me." (or something very similar). and i told him that i thought md was going to be meeting with him today and to contact me should he need any further clarification or information about anything. i also said that i look forward to the day that i can move on and away from this situation. (hopefully today!!! )
so, please say a quick lil prayer and let's hope everything works out.
DaisyRN, ACNP
383 Posts
okay, i have talked with the medical director...
he asked me what was going on with our office, so i just opened up (and i didn't cry!
- i cry when extremely frustrated). and i avoided the "he said...she said..." approach. i just told him what my concerns were and why i didn't think it was working out. i told him that i fear repercutions from her because she has caught wind of me communicating with the ceo, office super, and director. since my original posting, she has gone to the supervisor and falsified information about me (that i text message in patient rooms, that i had to be asked multiple times to come back into the office when i was outside talking with the supervisor for privacy, that i hurt the receptionists feelings, that i gave her a dirty look, blah blah blah.). none of which are true. i also shared my concerns with her holding me back from success and seeing me as a threat instead of a help and additional provider. there were some other issues, but that was the gest of it. oh, i also told him that she did not offer me much guidance or direction in seeing patients, knowing "what to do next" for her, or whatever... i compared my experience with her versus my superb learning experience with him.
his responses:
a) despite the issues that have gone along with it, he appreciates my coming forward and making them aware of these issues as the mgmt was very much in the dark about a lot of things.
b) they have been waiting on her to sign her contract with the corporation for influential power over her, so to speak. he said that he's been addressing some of the previously mentioned issues with her in the past few years but did not have any disciplinary influence over her. now he does. she is not a partner. she is contracted through the corporation where if the partner's group pulls out, she's on her own.
c) he and i talked about the plan for me to spend more time with him and the time frame for when i should start really seeing patients "on my own."
d) he made a "personal commitment" to me to ensure that i was not going down for anything she has done or said. and ensured my job security and future with the group.
e) he asked me what i thought they should do about the situation... and asked me if i wanted to just start hanging out with him. i told him that would be fine with me, however... i think gd would throw a fit and it would add more fuel to the fire. the medical director said that it would be helpful for me to stay in the rural clinic and monitor for the changes they are trying to make and also to maintain a sense of "peace" with her, for now. he assured me that if at any time i need to get out, and even if i have to walk away from that clinic and never go back, i have a desk in his office with my name on it.
f) he assured me that her opinion and comments are not taken with much weight or credibility among the group. i told him i was worried about having a negative rep with the partners due to all of this commotion and me not wanting to come off as problematic or unpleasant to work with, so that's why he mentioned this.
i feel much better about things because i know how he feels and know that he is now aware of some key issues. i'm anxious for the corporation to get in the rural clinic and do their thing, make the changes, and see some changes. i guess we'll just have to see how it goes...