Vaccination Mandating

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I'm in NY. Wonder how other NURSES are feeling about mandatory COVID vaccination?

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8 hours ago, Hannahbanana said:

And now comes the newly-named Omicron variant, recently identified in several South African countries (and also already found in Belgium, Hong Kong, and Israel, so it's out there). The earliest collected specimen was from Botswana on 11/11/2021, and "may have originated in a chronic enfection of an immunocompromised person, such as an untreated HIV/AIDS patient. (Science, 11/26/2021)" Further info on severity of illness, penetration, and which, precisely, spike proteins are involved is a source of feverish study in many labs around the world but won't be possible to know for a few weeks, as infectivity and contact spreading proceeds. Further investigation will shed light on whether past vaccines will be effective, or not. Stand by. Definitely a developing situation.

It appears it may be more contagious than earlier variants and may carry a "higher risk of re-infection than other variants of concern" (WHO). BioNTech, who produced the Pfizer vaccine, released a statement that said they "have taken actions months ago to be able to adapt the mRNA vaccine within 6 weeks and ship initial batches within 100 days in the event of an escape variant."

It sounds a superbug to me. 

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16 hours ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

More than ever we need as many people to get vaccinated as possible.

 

Mandates work.

Do you remember not too far back in a more optimistic cloud that 70-80% vaccination rates were considered high enough to be effective?  As was totally predicted from the beginning, the anti-vaxxers have caused that bar to have to be raised to a figure more difficult to achieve.

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1 hour ago, subee said:

Do you remember not too far back in a more optimistic cloud that 70-80% vaccination rates were considered high enough to be effective?  As was totally predicted from the beginning, the anti-vaxxers have caused that bar to have to be raised to a figure more difficult to achieve [emphasis added].

How exactly have anti-vaxxers done this?  

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49 minutes ago, chare said:

How exactly have anti-vaxxers done this?  

They haven't gotten vaccinated.  They have used social media to manipulate people to not get vaccinated.  Do you not believe that if we were (picking MY random figure here) 85% vaccinated that we could have prevented doctors and nurses from quitting their jobs?  It was never about stopping the disease; it was about protecting our hospitals from what has been happening for 2 years now.  We are now in condition red at my hospital for the FIRST time in the entire pandemic.  If Trump had televised his and Melania's vaccinations immediately, plus emphasizing the urgency as something else than a mere aside (after he was outed), we woukd not be Covid free but our institution would not have a pediatric death, nor 10 cases flown out to a city 2 and 1/2 hrs away for higher level of care.  Do you believe that vaccination doesn't work and that unvaccinated people are not making a difference in our ICU's?  

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18 minutes ago, subee said:
1 hour ago, chare said:

How exactly have anti-vaxxers done this?  

They haven't gotten vaccinated.  They have used social media to manipulate people to not get vaccinated.  Do you not believe that if we were (picking MY random figure here) 85% vaccinated that we could have prevented doctors and nurses from quitting their jobs? ...

This still hasn't answered my question.  You initially stated that we would need 70 - 80% of the population to vaccinate to stop the spread, and that since that hadn't happened, it raised the bar, by which I assume you're saying a greater percentage will need to be vaccinated.  How, again, has the fact that a group has opted not to vaccinate has this raised the bar? 

24 minutes ago, subee said:

... Do you believe that vaccination doesn't work and that unvaccinated people are not making a difference in our ICU's?  

My thoughts on whether vaccination works, or not, has nothing to do with the question I asked.

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1 hour ago, chare said:

This still hasn't answered my question.  You initially stated that we would need 70 - 80% of the population to vaccinate to stop the spread, and that since that hadn't happened, it raised the bar, by which I assume you're saying a greater percentage will need to be vaccinated.  How, again, has the fact that a group has opted not to vaccinate has this raised the bar? 

My thoughts on whether vaccination works, or not, has nothing to do with the question I asked.

No, that's not what I said.  I  thought that I made it clear that the figures of 70 and 80 were a just our naivete talking, not reality.  I never dreamed people would refuse to get vaxxed .  If you don't understand the concept, you need to read up  on statistics.  I'm not sure what parts of the equation you are missing.  The more vaccinated people we have, the less people will be hospitalized from the infection.  We can't stop it; we can only mitigate it.  The longer it takes to decrease the number of infections, the more time the virus will have to mutate (in our favor or against our favor).  The more the virus mutates and spreads among the unvaccinated (go to hospital), the more it will spread to the vaccinated (less of whom will go to the hospital) but still creates cases that will require hospitalization.   I know you understand what less hospitalizations means for the entire society, not just for health care workers.  Read The Premonition if you are interested in the people who do the numbers in public health.  And yes, your comment concerns me about your understanding of how viruses behave and you are a nurse.  If you don't believe that vaccination works, you can avoid the math.  Heck, you can avoid any thinking about personal behavior.    If you do believe in vaccination, why should the percentage of unvaccinated people NOT matter, as your question implies?

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9 minutes ago, subee said:

No, that's not what I said.  I  thought that I made it clear that the figures of 70 and 80 were a just our naivete talking, not reality. ...

Not quite, or am I misinterpreting what you wrote here as you seem to be suggesting that vaccination rates of 70-80% would be effective?  If my memory serves me correctly, I believe these were the vaccination rates that were initially suggested as effective.

4 hours ago, subee said:

Do you remember not too far back in a more optimistic cloud that 70-80% vaccination rates were considered high enough to be effective? As was totally predicted from the beginning, the anti-vaxxers have caused that bar to have to be raised to a figure more difficult to achieve [emphasis added].

 Then, you raised the bar to 85%

2 hours ago, subee said:

They haven't gotten vaccinated.  They have used social media to manipulate people to not get vaccinated.  Do you not believe that if we were (picking MY random figure here) 85% vaccinated that we could have prevented doctors and nurses from quitting their jobs [emphasis added]?

We naively thought that 70-80% would be effective.  You now think 85% would effective.  Assuming that any of these numbers are accurate, how does one group of persons not being vaccinated have any effect on the total percentage of the population that should be vaccinated?  

25 minutes ago, subee said:

And yes, your comment concerns me about your understanding of how viruses behave and you are a nurse.  If you don't believe that vaccination works, you can avoid the math.  Heck, you can avoid any thinking about personal behavior.

What comment of mine exactly causes you this concern?  Particularly "whether I understand as to how viruses behave" or "whether I believe that vaccination works" either vaccines in general or the COVID vaccination in particular.  

As you've made several incorrect assumptions, again, regarding my understanding of a topic, please explain how you came to these conclusions. 

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5 minutes ago, chare said:

Not quite, or am I misinterpreting what you wrote here as you seem to be suggesting that vaccination rates of 70-80% would be effective?  If my memory serves me correctly, I believe these were the vaccination rates that were initially suggested as effective.

 Then, you raised the bar to 85%

We naively thought that 70-80% would be effective.  You now think 85% would effective.  Assuming that any of these numbers are accurate, how does one group of persons not being vaccinated have any effect on the total percentage of the population that should be vaccinated?  

What comment of mine exactly causes you this concern?  Particularly "whether I understand as to how viruses behave" or "whether I believe that vaccination works" either vaccines in general or the COVID vaccination in particular.  

As you've made several incorrect assumptions, again, regarding my understanding of a topic, please explain how you came to these conclusions. 

You are taking things I said out of context.  I feel like I have to prove to you that the sky is blue.  If you do not understand why vaccine hesitation affects the time line of.a pandemic then I cannot explain it to you.  I'm done.  

 

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17 minutes ago, subee said:

You are taking things I said out of context.  I feel like I have to prove to you that the sky is blue.  If you do not understand why vaccine hesitation affects the time line of.a pandemic ... [emphasis added].  

No, I'm not taking anything out of context.  But, I am asking you to clarify statements that you have made.  And the statement I have emphasized here is not what you initially claimed; had you done so I would have agreed with you.  You initially made a statement that we needed a certain percentage of the population to be vaccinated to be effective, and that because a portion of the population opted to not vaccinate we need a greater percentage of the population to vaccinate.  You explain these number as naivety and your random number.  All I'm asking is for you to explain how it matters which group is vaccinated, as long as we reach whatever percentage being vaccinated that is effective.   

26 minutes ago, subee said:

... If you do not understand why vaccine hesitation affects the time line of.a pandemic then I cannot explain it to you.  I'm done.  

Once again, making incorrect assumptions about what I do or don't understand.  I'll decline asking you to explain how you've reached this conclusion as you've failed to do so the last two times I've asked.

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3 hours ago, chare said:

No, I'm not taking anything out of context.  But, I am asking you to clarify statements that you have made.  And the statement I have emphasized here is not what you initially claimed; had you done so I would have agreed with you.  You initially made a statement that we needed a certain percentage of the population to be vaccinated to be effective, and that because a portion of the population opted to not vaccinate we need a greater percentage of the population to vaccinate.  You explain these number as naivety and your random number.  All I'm asking is for you to explain how it matters which group is vaccinated, as long as we reach whatever percentage being vaccinated that is effective.   

Once again, making incorrect assumptions about what I do or don't understand.  I'll decline asking you to explain how you've reached this conclusion as you've failed to do so the last two times I've asked.

If you don't believe my argument, here is the one from Johns Hopkins.  Perhaps their explanation will be clearer. Rethinking Herd Immunity and the Covid-19 Response End Game | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (jhu.edu).  I apologize for not being able to figure out why Windows 11 won't activate this link for you.  

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19 minutes ago, subee said:

If you don't believe my  argument, here is the one from Johns Hopkins. ...

Rethinking Herd Immunity and the Covid-19 Response End Game

Is this the article you're referring to?

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I personally think we should not allow unvaccinated into hospitals. I'm doing my part by getting vaccinated, you can get access to hospitals when you do your part. I didn't sign up to be a plague sponge. The risk you think you have for mild myocarditis is nothing compared to the horrors I've seen the past two years.

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