Our facility was asked to host a group of soon to be graduated nursing students.
The students are taking a class in nursing leadership so they were assigned to spend the day with the nursing department's leadership. The students were provided a breakfast reception and were allowed to shadow the departments nursing managers. The chief of nursing gave a talk to the students to welcome them to the profession.
The students did not come prepared to meet potential hiring managers. Unprofessional clothes/demeanor, playing with cell phones/texting, asking about vacant positions etc.
I was asked to tour them around the facility so that they understand the complexities of the hospital. I had the opportunity to talk with them as we walked through the facility.
I was shocked how many of them were second degree nursing students had completed graduate school prior to entering nursing school. I was troubled as they did not understand that nursing positions for new grads are very difficult to obtain. They were all under the impression that if they had a BSN, the jobs they wishes for would be there for them.
I was taken aback at how these soon to be graduates did not understand what nursing was about and what the role of the nurse is.
One of the students has a degree in English and a graduate degree in Communications. She stated that she was a Journalist and a freelance writer but she could not get work so she entered nursing so that she could become a medical writer.
Another student stated that he had an undergraduate degree in Public Policy and a Law degree but could not obtain work so he went into nursing to develop knowledge about healthcare. He saw himself a the hospital's attorney.
Three other students had undergrad degrees in Business but did not find work in their field so they took nursing hoping to be a hospital manager. The other students in the group were less vocal about their backgrounds and future plans. I know it is more common today to see second career nurses but my concern is that these students really do not understand what nursing is all about.
I really could not see any of these students working as a staff nurse. Nursing is hard work and you are standing on your feet for 12-13 hours trying to complete your assigned tasks.
I know that times are tough for everywhere but I wish that the nursing schools would be more honest to the students about what nurses do. If this students came into nursing with a desire to work as a nurse, I would be excited. What I sense is that these students tried something else, did not succeed and now see nursing as a quick way to a check. Making the situation more difficult is the fact that in our area (NYC) clinical jobs are few and that management jobs are very hard to attain.
Who put the idea into our nursing student/attorney head that he will walk out of school and obtain a legal job in the hospital because he has a nursing degree? Who told the writer that a nursing degree would now make her a medical writer after she failed to succeed in her previous attempts at being a writer/journalist?
I feel bad because the school they go to charges over 80K for a 15 month Accelerated BSN. That is a lot of money and these students have to put out. You would have thought they would have researched nursing before they signed up....I am shocked at how misguided these students are.
To sum up, I smiled as they spoke and gently told them that nursing positions today are competitive especially in NYC as their is presently a surplus of nurses. Do you think I did the right thing or should I have addressed their unrealistic expectations?
Not only are we going to see the next sub-prime fallout, but I believe we are going to see the collapse of for-profit schools. UoP has closed several schools, including 2 two in this area.
The collapse of for profit schools would be a victory...the debt wouldn't be...
Some of the statements in this thread make my blood boil. I am a second degree nurse (formerly a teacher), who had a very successful career prior to deciding to go back to nursing school. I repeat, some of us did not go to nursing school because we couldn't find work in our initial chosen fields-contrary to public opinion or what is being reported as truth on this thread.
Thinking back on my cohort, we had extremely successful professionals who decided because of personal reasons (sick children/parents) that they wanted to be nurses because of the stellar care their families received by nurses. I completed a ABSN degree and found a job shortly after graduating in a NICU. No,I wasn't disillusioned and thought I would get an ICU position immediately after nursing school, but I worked my tail off, earned good grades, became a nurse tech, was heavily involved in my school and landed a pretty good preceptorship.
What I choose to do with my money, is up to me! Suggesting that second degree students are taking out excessive amounts of loans to fund their education is false in many many cases.There is a cap on how much undergraduate student loans one can receive so people can't take out unlimited amounts of loans-- a concept I believe is fair.
People equating the influx of nurses to second degree graduates is completely absurd. So is suggesting that second degree students are the only ones that are looking at a staff RN position as a stepping stone. Most GNs use staff nursing positions as a stepping stone in one way or another, moving to another speciality, to management, leadership, NP roles, etc. This is not uncommon for any GN/RN. To the OP maybe the person who suggested that some day they would want to merge their degrees as a hospital attorney was simply suggesting that in the future that would be something of interest to them. Maybe they were not assuming that upon graduating with a BSN that a hospital would actually deem them qualified to be a hospital attorney. I know that I merge my two careers all the time-- I am constantly teaching at my job which fulfills me...maybe the lawyer turned nurse wants to do the same? Who are we to judge?
One of the students has a degree in English and a graduate degree in Communications. She stated that she was a Journalist and a freelance writer but she could not get work so she entered nursing so that she could become a medical writer.
Seems a reasonable goal to me.
Another student stated that he had an undergraduate degree in Public Policy and a Law degree but could not obtain work so he went into nursing to develop knowledge about healthcare. He saw himself a the hospital's attorney.
Seems a reasonable goal to me.
Three other students had undergrad degrees in Business but did not find work in their field so they took nursing hoping to be a hospital manager.
Seem like reasonable goals to me.
The other students in the group were less vocal...
So perhaps your blanket assessment "They were all under the impression..." is not accurate?
I know it is more common today to see second career nurses but my concern is that these students really do not understand what nursing is all about.
I'm a second-career nurse (or third- or fourth-, depending on how one would choose to divvy it all up... I'm not sure that I really "understood what nursing is all about;" neither am I so sure that anybody does until they've been doing it for awhile...
...though perhaps nursing is such a broad and vast field that it defies a simple definition of "what nursing is all about."
I say this as a former engineer who often gets questioned, (a) what kind, and (b) why did you leave? Neither of which has a simple answer because engineering is even broader than is nursing and, as to why... even though the decision was a snap one, made in a single night, there was a long history which preceded it.
I really could not see any of these students working as a staff nurse.
Well, a superficial assessment formed over a few minutes is not likely to be all that accurate.
Nursing is hard work
"hard work" is a relative term... and I don't find it to be nearly as hard as some people describe it...
and you are standing on your feet for 12-13 hours
In my experience, this is an exaggeration... I often sit during my work... never for long but it's not like I'm on my feet for 12 hours per day... my wife the school teacher is on her feet for longer stretches than am I.
Though, so what? It's not like standing and walking around for 12 hours is that big a deal for someone who's in decent shape...
I know that times are tough for everywhere but I wish that the nursing schools would be more honest to the students about what nurses do.
Well, that's part of why they were there, right... to hear it from 'the horse's mouth?'
If this students came into nursing with a desire to work as a nurse, I would be excited.
So they're planning to use it as a stepping stone, so what?
Is that any different than all the other nurses looking to get away from the bedside... NP anyone? CRNA? LNC? and on and on and on...
What I sense is that these students tried something else, did not succeed and now see nursing as a quick way to a check.
What, so they didn't succeed at their dream so they're supposed to... what, just starve? The truth is, nursing *is* a quick way to a check... and a very, very large one at that...
Who put the idea into our nursing student/attorney head that he will walk out of school and obtain a legal job in the hospital because he has a nursing degree? Who told the writer that a nursing degree would now make her a medical writer after she failed to succeed in her previous attempts at being a writer/journalist?
I rather imagine that nobody told them that, nor that they're really expecting to simply walk out of nursing school and into the executive suite but neither am I so certain that they won't end up in those places after a few years.
Maybe ~2004-2005, nursing jobs seemed plentiful. This was the time in which there seemed to be a true nursing shortage and you could pick and choose your field. And then 2008 came along, and the rest is history.
I made the decision to become a nurse in 2006, in large part *because* I was looking for the lowest risk, highest return-on-investment choice of the options I had... and finally concluded that nursing was it.
I never bought into the whole "nursing shortage" thing, per se, but still figured it to be a relatively low-risk move...
I got my license in 2009, with my eyes wide open as to what was happening to the new-grad job market. Depending on how you look at it, I had trouble finding work, though in reality I was employed within 4 weeks of getting my license... it just wasn't at a job that I would have chosen nor one that would have led me into nursing in the first place.
Three years later, it all turned up roses...
On paper, I'm sure many would question my motives, plans, and preparations. Perhaps even now...
That said, I think I could walk into any ED in the country... literally, any one, big or small, urban or rural... and be a solid performer...
And this year I'm going to earn way over six figures... way over... for a 2-year investment in education...
I don't blame anybody for choosing to go into nursing, from whichever field they come... as long as they can hold their own when sharing an assignment with me.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
. . .To sum up, I smiled as they spoke and gently told them that nursing positions today are competitive especially in NYC as their is presently a surplus of nurses.
Do you think I did the right thing or should I have addressed their unrealistic expectations?
I think you did the right thing. It's just unfortunate that they wasted such a fantastic opportunity. Bravo to your hospital for hosting the event, especially in these days of more difficulty in some areas to find hospitals willing to take students or otherwise extend themselves to collaborate with nursing schools/programs.
I also don't see the problem with second career nurses wanting to have a position in leadership. They are obviously aiming high and there is nothing wrong with that considering they have spent their time and money to make themselves marketable. I once had a manager with an MBA who had an ADN because that opened doors for her to be an Executive officer in healthcare settings (she never worked a day as a nurse). A former lawyer with a nursing background will be a better pick for hospital attorney that just a regular lawyer.
I honestly do not understand why other nurses have a problem with nurses who want to step away from the bedside. It's perfectly okay to leave the bedside (which other nurses feel like it's a betrayal to the profession) if you no longer enjoy it so that you can create room for others who want to be there.
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Nursing can be back breaking, and not many nurses can work at the bedside for their entire career. Someone once told me the average age of a bedside nurse is 48 years old. As someone put it, there are so many flavors to nursing. Some have less or no poop, no patient contact, etc. Those positions need to be filled by someone with a nursing degree. If someone chooses to work in those jobs, why not. I have repetatively said over the years that I do not want to work in psych. There is nothing wrong with a having a preferance about an area of work where you feel you can give your best and have high job satisfaction.
I repeat, some of us did not go to nursing school because we couldn't find work in our initial chosen fields
And some of us did...
So what?
I completed a ABSN degree
Mine was even worse in the minds of many... I was a DEMSN...
(I) found a job shortly after graduating in a NICU. No,I wasn't disillusioned and thought I would get an ICU position immediately after nursing school, but I worked my tail off, earned good grades, became a nurse tech, was heavily involved in my school and landed a pretty good preceptorship.
I had all that, too, but I ended up in nursing purgatory for my first three years. If I'd known that's where I'd have ended up, I may not have done nursing. I certainly questioned myself a number of times.
Finally, though, things did break my way... and my only regret about nursing is that I didn't do it 20 years earlier (which would mean that I'd be starting to eye retirement instead of trying to figure out how to milk another 20 years out of this gig)
Straight up: I came looking for a secure job, that I wouldn't hate, which paid good money... check, check, and check.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Unfortunately, I see many more like the graduates that the OP encountered than the ones that that Don describes. There are smatterings of those who really want to be a bedside nurse but I find a greater number interested at the bedside as a stepping stone to the "big paying" jobs.
We even see here at AN those who seek "easy jobs", jobs without patient contact, seeking the ICU just to move on to the real paying job of CRNA, and those who assume that just because they possess a BSN the world is at their feet... which is just simply not the case.
The job market is many parts of the US is dismal for many new grads with hospitals unwilling to hire and train a new grad only to have them leave after that precious year, leaving the facility once again without trained staff, Frustrating and expensive.
I think there are nursing schools out there that are not properly preparing these new nurses for the workforce nor the reality of what the market presently dictates.
Esme, can you find me a job where I won't have to deal with poo, patients or spiders?
LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN
8,429 Posts
The collapse of for profit schools would be a victory...the debt wouldn't be...
On a side note: sub-primes are already back.