Universal Deathcare.

Published

So those that support Universal Healthcare and how great it is care to explain to us how it was great for Alfie Evans? Hopefully not coming soon to the America near you.

Oh, spare me! This poor baby was trying to be kept alive with a horrible, terminal condition. In this country the SNFs/BCs have an endless array of adults in permanent vegetative states not by choice rather family does not want to let go while those who can be saved end up living in a tent D/T the gazillion $ they did not have on hand.

When I was young/ working poor I was eligible for nothing given I didn't have kids until I had college, marriage and all that jazz. Lacking means to go to doctors/ERs I treated suspected infections with ABX and foot Fx heal on its own. I pay $1,400/month for insurance as a F/T RN and avoid MD visits at all costs as I wouldn't have the means to pay deductibles/co-pays et al. Great system we have where the hospital gets to own everything we have ever worked for should either hubby or myself get hit with anything major.

I would add that when young I was already 'viable' & paid taxes, I just got lucky on avoiding anything major enough to go to the hospital. If you wish for an exhibit on lack of meaningful access to healthcare for the shrinking middle class the U.S. does a great job.

Yes, it is sad this baby died, he would have no matter what and if the parents were U.S. homeowners they would still have lost the baby along with their home, car and credit.

People who make comments such as yours had mommy & daddy cover them, went directly into coverage via spouse or work and have never had a day of lack (of) healthcare. You also have that 'magical' thinking that those who work get health insurance when many do not but never been on the 'po side of town' have you?

Oh and likely never worked county where uninsured get diagnosed late D/T ending up on SSDI when they have a few weeks left to live.

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You are a businessman, not a nurse. Oh and get back with us when you have cured death...

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Specializes in SICU, trauma, neuro.

I did my BSN capstone paper/presentation on compassion fatigue. One study I read incorporated quotes from the study participants. The one quote I remember was from a NICU RN, on caring for a 22 or 23 week preemie: "we kept flogging that baby." Flogging.

There are fates worse than death, and to describe it as "flogging"... heartbreaking.

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I'll guarantee you it's the most expensive; top to bottom.

Yes -- last I checked, twice as expensive (per capita) as the next most expensive country, and with significantly poorer outcomes to show for it.

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Not 100% of doctors agreed... and the matter is such that parents should have had a say, NOT the government!

Yes actually all those involved in his care did agree. He had very little actual brain tissue left. It was mostly lymph, and dead tissue. There was no recovery. Period.

And the government didn't say, as has been repeatedly stated the courts simply backed what the hospital decided. All the machines were doing was keeping a corpse from being buried.

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Specializes in Emergency Department.

Where are the "death panels" in this case?

Noel Conway right to die case back at Appeal Court - BBC News

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It is kind of funny that you would chose "this well written piece" as a source. Look at the author of the piece. Me. lol. I am against prolonging suffering but I also am against the government and hospitals deciding when it is time. Families are the final decision maker. Not committees or groups or courts.

Yes- the irony is not accidental.

I thought that article was well written, and could relate to it. I got out of critical care largely because it forced me to do things I knew were not in the patients' interests at the wish of the family. I believe that is unethical to inflict pain and suffering on somebody just because they have the misfortune of being part of a particular family.

In that article, you are highly critical of a system in which families are the final decision makers when their decisions harm the patient. In this thread, you advocate for families to be the "final decision maker" regardless of the harm to the patient.

As far as decisions being made by committees, groups, or courts: How else can conflicts be resolved? IF it was not for ethics committees, what recourse would a nurse have to advocate for a patient being treated unethically?

Hypothetical: The family decided that Alfie was actually a girl who had been assigned the wrong gender at birth. A doctor in Bangladesh agreed to do the surgery, and there was a group willing to pay for a NICU team to transport Alfie. Should the family have the right to make this decision?

Courts and other institutions are frequently used to protect children against the decisions of their parents. Imagine if they were not.

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I am highly critical of families that allow the Elderly to suffer. I was pedi nurse for over 10 years and I can understand giving kids a chance at life.

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Though it's not mine to give, I might might forgive the parents their egregious insistence on prolonging that little boy's heart wrenching existence, though I don't think I could ever forgive myself once I realized my own weakness and selfishness in postponing his peace, but I cannot forgive the masses' ignorant politically inspired position.

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Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care.

A good read: How Alfie died: all the facts - La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana

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Specializes in Emergency Department.

No, it is not.

It is emotive, unsubstantiated opinion. It was written by someone who has a qualification in "Political Science" from a catholic university. She has no knowledge of medicine.

It is another piece that seeks to demonise the nursing and medical staff who have looked after Alfie for a very long time and have an emotional attachment but are being harassed, bullied and victimised by stupid, ignorant people.

I was trying to stay out of this but seriously guys, get a grip. This child was suffering, he was dying and the decision was made by the MEDICAL staff - and this would have included nursing staff (his parents would also be involved) - to remove interventions and allow him to die peacefully and with dignity. The courts agreed - nothing to do with the government - several times. We would not allow an animal to suffer, why then do we want our children suffering.

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I am highly critical of families that allow the Elderly to suffer. I was pedi nurse for over 10 years and I can understand giving kids a chance at life.

Although it's certainly a tragic situation, a kid whose brain is reduced to a bag of goo doesn't have "a chance at life."

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