Universal Deathcare.

[Kyrshamarks]

So those that support Universal Healthcare and how great it is care to explain to us how it was great for Alfie Evans? Hopefully not coming soon to the America near you.

[Apple-Core, ASN, BSN, RN]

Is the OP from the UK?

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

Is the OP from the UK?

No I believe the OP is a US nurse.

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

Quality of life or not, the parents had their CHOICE and PARENTAL RIGHTS abrogated by a know-it-all National Health System. Their alternative for care in another country was independently funded. They should of had the choice. Socialized medicine equals death panels, plain and simple.

I have worked in the UK for 30 years the last15 in very senior positions. In that whole time I have never encountered your so called "death panel"

We occasionally have disagreements between what families believe is in best interests and what the medical teams are advocating at which point we will hold a best interest meeting. At that meeting all interested parties are represented and all have the opportunity to input into that discussion. The views and beliefs of the family are very much considered and extremely important.

If no agreement is reached and all options to reach that agreement are exhausted (and from my experience w try all options seeking second and even third opinions ) then the medical teams would involve the hospital adult or child safeguarding teams for support. A strategy meeting would be held with an independent reviewer and if this was not able to find a way forward then they would contact the hospital legal team to ask for guidance.

The legal processes are independent of the hospital (and the government) and provide an impartial review of all of the information to support a decision which is in the best interest of the patient.

Do we always get it right - no

But this view that we have death panels is just not accurate.

There are many flaws in our system, it's not perfect.

We are underfunded, over stretched, many of us working in the NHS don't like the direction we are heading, driven by finance which sometimes feels at the detriment of quality. BUT most of us are passionate about our NHS because despite that the care we deliver in the main is excellent.

If you want to demonise Universal Healthcare there are many other reasons you could look a and use but, this case is not one.

[Coffee Nurse, BSN, RN]

I keep thinking of that heartbreaking photo that was circulating after Alfie was extubated. His mother was holding him and someone -- presumably his father -- was propping up his arm to make it look like he was hugging her shoulder. The contrast between what his parents wanted to see in him and the reality of his closed eyes and slack body, to me, just encapsulates the fundamental problem with saying his parents were the best people to make decisions on his behalf.

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

. Socialized medicine equals death panels, plain and simple.

Bollicks!

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

And before anyone wants to accuse me of being rude and nasty, I'm sick of reading opinions from people whose only experience of univerdal healthcare and medicine is what they read in the media.

Because we all know how much the media likes to tell the truth.

It seems that for many if the opinions formed based on media hysteria contradict the actual experience of those who have lived with, and worked in a single payer system, then actual experience takes a back seat to media hype.

IF what some of you posit what goes on in a single payer scheme actually happens. That would make the nurses and doctors who work in the service some of the worst criminals in the world.

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

And before anyone wants to accuse me of being rude and nasty, I'm sick of reading opinions from people whose only experience of univerdal healthcare and medicine is what they read in the media.

Because we all know how much the media likes to tell the truth.

It seems that for many if the opinions formed based on media hysteria contradict the actual experience of those who have lived with, and worked in a single payer system, then actual experience takes a back seat to media hype.

IF what some of you posit what goes on in a single payer scheme actually happens. That would make the nurses and doctors who work in the service some of the worst criminals in the world.

I liked your post, it made me chuckle. í ½í¸‚

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

I keep thinking of that heartbreaking photo that was circulating after Alfie was extubated. His mother was holding him and someone -- presumably his father -- was propping up his arm to make it look like he was hugging her shoulder. The contrast between what his parents wanted to see in him and the reality of his closed eyes and slack body, to me, just encapsulates the fundamental problem with saying his parents were the best people to make decisions on his behalf.

Both families have had their grief manipulated and extorted by the media and other fanatics wanting to make a point. What they needed was honest support reflective of the dire situation both they and their children found themselves in.

[broughden]

Quality of life or not, the parents had their CHOICE and PARENTAL RIGHTS abrogated by a know-it-all National Health System. Their alternative for care in another country was independently funded. They should of had the choice. Socialized medicine equals death panels, plain and simple.

So the tax payers should be responsible for artificially maintaining a corpse because the parents cannot handle the fact that their child is dead and unrecoverable?

Sorry but no.

It was a hunk of meat, there was no life left, Im not sure why that medical fact is so hard to understand for some people.

[broughden]

No I believe the OP is a US nurse.

Given the OP's profound and continued lack of understanding into basic human physiology, as evidenced by some of his posts in this thread, I question if they are a nurse at all.

He has refused my request to explain to us all how a body with a cranial cavity full of water and lysed neurons was going to spontaneously recover, which he implied as possible.

[Coffee Nurse, BSN, RN]

So the tax payers should be responsible for artificially maintaining a corpse because the parents cannot handle the fact that their child is dead and unrecoverable?

Sorry but no.

It was a hunk of meat, there was no life left, Im not sure why that medical fact is so hard to understand for some people.

Can we temper our zeal for realistic descriptions with a little common decency please. Those of us advocating for Alfie on this thread are trying to argue his humanity. Language like this is crude and unnecessary.

[broughden]

Can we temper our zeal for realistic descriptions with a little common decency please. Those of us advocating for Alfie on this thread are trying to argue his humanity. Language like this is crude and unnecessary.

It was a brain dead body, there was no humanity left. It would be the equivalent of advocating against using a cadaver lab during nursing or med school, because of their "humanity". Frankly, Im not going to "spare the feelings" of someone who doesn't seem to understand basic physiology and yet claims to be in the field of medicine.

I will ask you the same question I asked the OP, do you think the pt with a cranial cavity full of fluid and lysed neurons was going to spontaneously recover? If so, how?

I will await your explanation.