Trump's 'religious conscience'

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Jun 15, 2019

I find it interesting that our president is so eager to insert religion into politics, because he is anything but a follower of Jesus.

That being said, I am against abortion but would never refuse care to a woman or girl who had one. I simply wouldn't work in a place where I had to deal with abortion. It's common sense.

Lane Therrell FNP, MSN, RN, NP · Jun 15, 2019

30 minutes ago, VivaLasViejas said:
I am against abortion but would never refuse care to a woman or girl who had one.

As it should be. Why are we, as a society, even arguing about this?

MunoRN, RN · Jun 15, 2019

I think people assume this only refers to religious opposition to abortion and other reproductive services. I've worked in a region where it wasn't unheard of for a nurse or doctor to make it known they believed any illness, injury, or medical condition a LGBTQ patient suffers from is an intentional punishment from God, and it's against their beliefs to provide any care or treatment at all to that person. This regulation would potentially protect them if they chose to act on that belief.

CamMc · Jun 15, 2019

As a transgender man, this scares the crap out of me. I have heard of people who have gone in for routine healthcare like a sinus infection and being turned away because they are trans. The fact that this could be given precedent that it wouldn't have grounds to be fought infuriates me. I think a lot of people hear this and assume it means that trans people would lose access to trans related healthcare, but it can extend to anything. This will be disastrous if it moves forward.

Edited to add...the fact that this regulation would be coming from a man that is so far from acting as any bit of a Christian is even more frustrating.

Lane Therrell FNP, MSN, RN, NP · Jun 16, 2019

2 hours ago, CamMc said:
I have heard of people who have gone in for routine healthcare like a sinus infection and being turned away because they are trans.

In my humble opinion, any healthcare provider who refuses to treat a sinus infection because the sufferer is trans is in the wroooong business. Biomedical ethics, the Nightingale Oath, and the Hippocratic Oath gotta count for something! If any of these things, on which healthcare is built, are in direct conflict with an individual's religion, then the individual needs to find a different career, or find a different religion. I believe the principles of biomedical ethics are not inconsistent with most religious views if one reflects deeply enough. Problem is, people have forgotten how to engage in self-reflection. In the circumstances where ethical-religious inconsistencies arise, there should be allowances for rational disclosures and choices to be made by both provider and patient. (As a patient, I don't want anyone laying a hand on me to give me medicine or do an invasive procedure, including an injection, if I know they have some sort of bias against me!) And if irreconcilable differences ever did arise for an individual healthcare professional between their religious views and biomedical ethics, the individual would have some soul-searching to do, with the quickest fix being to stop working in healthcare, or at least in the environment where the conflict could arise. Otherwise, they're doing harm.

guest22519 · Jun 16, 2019

On 6/14/2019 at 8:09 PM, Jory said:
Trump's entire goal in this world, his reason for living and breathing, is to spread as much corruption, division, and hate as humanly possible.
The only person Trump cares about his himself.

Karl Marx gave some interesting advice to his activist followers: “Accuse your enemy of what you are doing, as you are doing it to create confusion.” This is pretty much what the left does. They destroy, burn, shame, commit violence, suppress speech, but hey it’s fine, right? It’s all Trump’s fault.

Guest219794 · Jun 16, 2019

1 hour ago, DancRN said:
Karl Marx gave some interesting advice to his activist followers: “Accuse your enemy of what you are doing, as you are doing it to create confusion.” This is pretty much what the left does. They destroy, burn, shame, commit violence, suppress speech, but hey it’s fine, right? It’s all Trump’s fault.

Interested in hearing more, but on the topic of this thread.

1- Do you support the change in laws allowing nurses to exempt themselves if they perceive a religious conflict. If so, are you comfortable with the government deciding which religious beliefs deserve protection?

2- Do you believe that trump, as a human being holds these beliefs, or do you think he is simply pandering to a political/religious portion of the electorate strictly to get votes?

Davey Do · Jun 16, 2019

On 6/14/2019 at 8:14 PM, NurseBlaq said:
Why are non medical idiots making rules for medical professionals?

To use Tommy Smothers' concept to answer your question, NurseBlaq, it's because politicians wear more clothes and medical professionals wear less.

That makes medical professionals "Less-ons" and politicians "More-ons!

guest22519 · Jun 16, 2019

On 6/16/2019 at 3:03 PM, hherrn said:
Interested in hearing more, but on the topic of this thread.
1- Do you support the change in laws allowing nurses to exempt themselves if they perceive a religious conflict. If so, are you comfortable with the government deciding which religious beliefs deserve protection?
2- Do you believe that trump, as a human being holds these beliefs, or do you think he is simply pandering to a political/religious portion of the electorate strictly to get votes?

1- I believe that religious conflicts should be left at the door. Having said that, that are people who purposely want to create situations that are unnecessary for both parties involved. I believe this bill would protect all religions, pleas read more into it.

2- if you think Trump does everything by himself and is responsible for everything, then you are mistaken. He represents the majority of counties across the U.S.

As far as this bill goes, there is a whole lot more to it. Maybe people should read it in it’s entirety before condemning one or the other.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jun 16, 2019

On 6/15/2019 at 5:24 PM, CamMc said:
As a transgender man, this scares the crap out of me. I have heard of people who have gone in for routine healthcare like a sinus infection and being turned away because they are trans. The fact that this could be given precedent that it wouldn't have grounds to be fought infuriates me. I think a lot of people hear this and assume it means that trans people would lose access to trans related healthcare, but it can extend to anything. This will be disastrous if it moves forward.
Edited to add...the fact that this regulation would be coming from a man that is so far from acting as any bit of a Christian is even more frustrating.

As a cis woman, this scares the crap out of me, too. No one should be denied healthcare because of someone else’s religion. If you don’t want to give health care to someone who isn’t like you, then you’re doing it wrong. (Both the care giving and the religion.)

In the early 80s, when the AIDS hysteria was at it’s peak, I worked in a MICU with several fundamentalist Christians who refused to provide care for anyone who was HIV +. “They’re immoral,” was the reasoning. “God wouldn’t have given them HIV if they hadn’t been leading an immoral lifestyle.” And management just assigned someone else to care for the patient. Many of these “Christians” protested their assignments loudly and vociferously within the patients’ hearing. I have always found that to be reprehensible.

I am infuriated as well, and I agree that it will be disastrous. God made you the way you are, and who are these “Christians” to assume that He made a mistake?

MunoRN, RN · Jun 16, 2019

52 minutes ago, DancRN said:
1- I believe that religious conflicts should be left at the door. Having said that, that are people who purposely want to create situations that are unnecessary for both parties involved. I believe this bill would protect all religions, pleas read more into it.
2- if you think Trump does everything by himself and is responsible for everything, then you are mistaken. He represents the majority of counties across the U.S.
As far as this bill goes, there is a whole lot more to it. Maybe people should read it in it’s entirety before condemning one or the other.

I've read the "bill", which isn't a bill but an HHS OCR administrative rule defining how 25 different laws will be interpreted and enforced by the Office of Civil Rights within the HHS.

What the rule does is protect discrimination by heath care workers and entities under the guise of religious beliefs, including that harm should be allowed to occur to people if health care workers or entities believe they deserve to have that harm occur because they are different from them.

I would agree that this wasn't a decision Trump was involved in, which is the problem, he is disturbingly uninvolved in his own Presidency.

I'm not sure what you feel the significance of "he represents the majority of counties", he represents about 43% of Americans, which is not the majority of America.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Jun 16, 2019

On 6/15/2019 at 8:26 AM, LilPeanut said:
It absolutely is an abortion, medically speaking, and it is abhorrent that you would even consider that the second sentence should have ever come into play.
That nurse should have been fired, jailed and permanently lost her license. That is the worst kind of disgusting and a violation of medical ethics and is beyond the pale.

Hi. I'm confused and reading this post wrong. How could a D&C for a partial miscarriage be an abortion? The pregnancy is already aborted but the mother continues to bleed; hence, needs a D&C. The OR supervisor found it easier to just send her to another room than to take the time to try to explain the logical fallacy to this moron.