I was shadowing a nurse yesterday at a facility who happened to be a veteran nurse ( 60 years or older). Well, a pt. fell and was bleeding from her had. I witnessed the fall, so I called for help and made sure the pt. stayed put until helped arrived. The nurse I was shadowing came and started to apply pressure to the pts. head without gloves, the pts. blood was all over the nurses' hand. I felt bad that I didn't do that... but ultimately my health comes first and I'm not touching blood without gloves.
As we were doing wound care she still didn't wear gloves. She said back in her day she has touched so many things with her bear hands that sometimes she doesn't wear them.
I understand that is how she is used to practicing.
I disagree that wearing gloves only protects the wearer. That's assuming the person has washed their hands properly, which we all know how often that happens. I had a lab tech at my dr.'s office try to draw my blood with a nasty, black ace bandage wrapped from her knuckles to her elbow with no gloves on. Did not wash her hands before me and pretty sure she hadn't all day. I told her to either wear gloves, wash her hands and not wear bandage while she drew my blood, or get someone else. She was p'd off, but come on. That bandage looked disgusting.
That's the point, though. The theory IS based on handwashing, but how could it account for those that don't? The gloves still don't matter if that's the case; the gloves were in that person's hands before they put them on....and now contain whatever germs would have BEEN on the hands. Not any better.
How does the patient know that the person sticking them with a needle does not have hep, hiv, or anything else that could be passed on as soon as the needle enters the skin the protective barrier is broken, now if a latex condem has holes in it the diease can enter so it also makes sense if someone rips the fingertip off of their glove then the person is put at risk for anything the nurse may have on her hands but even worse the things that is running thur the nurses body. if it is not also for pt protection then why do we dress out with mask, gowns and gloves when a pt is on reverse isolation? To protect them from something that may be on our body clothes and in our lungs.
Apples to oranges, sorry. If the nurse performing the stick has HIV or Hep C or whatever, how does him/her wearing gloves protect you from that any more than not? So, a needle enters your skin and breaks that barrier....but the nurses' hands, gloved or not, do not come in contact with that site, or the needle. Irrelevant.
So I put on gloves to protect the patient from my dirty filthy hands. Of course, the gloves that are "protecting" the patient from my dirty filthy hands just immediately prior had my dirty filthy hands all over them.
Thank you wooh, you beat me to it. Those dirty, filthy hands just reached in to the glove box, grabbed two gloves, and held/manipulated them to put them on. Gloves now = dirty, filthy hands.
I'm not a germaphobe and I'm not scared of blood. I'd be far, far more likely to skip gloves with blood than I would be stool, for example. In fact, I would never ever ever clean up stool or urine without gloves, but I got blood on my hands plenty of times. However, I wouldn't intentionally go w/o gloves in the presence of any body fluid. I didn't break out into a panic every time someone bled or sneezed on me.
I worked with a general surgeon who only wore gloves for sterile procedures. Otherwise it was bare hands all the way. I saw him put his hands in some pretty disgusting things, lol.
Specializes in Trauma Surgery, Nursing Management.
I don't step into my house wearing my hospital shoes. I take them off on the front porch, then go inside in my socks, retrieve my can of Lysol, then I spray the bottoms of my shoes til their soaked with Lysol, then put them in my shoe closet inside. Our nursing school teacher had a friend who regularly wore her hospital shoes in her house. Her diabetic husband developed MRSA on his toe - ended up with an amputation. They're pretty sure it came from her shoes.
Yup, I'm with you! I don't wear my OR shoes outside of the OR, but still think that it's nasty to wear shoes inside the house (think of the dude that just hocked a loogie in the parking lot at the grocery store). I take my scrubs off in the mudroom and put them directly in the washer when I come home. This serves two purposes: one is that I am not bringing anything gross into my house, the other is that my husband is GLAD to see me! :)
I am still contemplating getting an EO sterilizer for home use...
Yup, I'm with you! I don't wear my OR shoes outside of the OR, but still think that it's nasty to wear shoes inside the house (think of the dude that just hocked a loogie in the parking lot at the grocery store). I take my scrubs off in the mudroom and put them directly in the washer when I come home. This serves two purposes: one is that I am not bringing anything gross into my house, the other is that my husband is GLAD to see me! :)
I am still contemplating getting an EO sterilizer for home use...
another story from my nursing instructor... a super long time ago, she worked with another nurse who incidentally had long acrylic nails (before hospitals banned those - that long ago!) this nurse was getting ready to remove a fecal impaction. she had a horrible time trying to glove up (imagine that with long nails!) and she finally got frustrated and said, "oh *#$!" then she ripped the gloves completely off and proceeded with the procedure!
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Back before the HIV stuff.....we really didn't wear gloves. It all started in the early eighties with the glove wearing stuff....:) We were taught to handle the dressing by the corners only maintaing sterility of the dressings being placed on the wounds. It was all about "touch" and not letting the patient feel "alienated" and "isolated". Wearing gowns in isolation were only for reverse or sterile isolation. wounds were never isolated....yuk
I remember back in the early 80s there was near hysteria about HIV/AIDs because there was generally a lack of information all around. I remember the first young man who came into our clinic with the fear of exposure. We sent them to our downtown LA facility because we had no way to test in our primitive lab.
The main fear when I started was hepatitis. We had hep A, hep B and "other". The virus for hep C was not identified at the time.
I have to say as an aside I get a kick out of the view some have of what nursing was like in the olden days. I think some embellishment of the story must occur as it is told and retold.
How does the patient know that the person sticking them with a needle does not have hep, hiv, or anything else that could be passed on as soon as the needle enters the skin the protective barrier is broken, now if a latex condem has holes in it the diease can enter so it also makes sense if someone rips the fingertip off of their glove then the person is put at risk for anything the nurse may have on her hands but even worse the things that is running thur the nurses body. if it is not also for pt protection then why do we dress out with mask, gowns and gloves when a pt is on reverse isolation? To protect them from something that may be on our body clothes and in our lungs.
So if the nurse has something "running thur" her body it is just going to pass from her intact skin and into the patient?
A "condem" may have holes in it but it also has bodily fluids inside it.
Yes that is true until the nurse has a cut,tear stick that would brake his/her skin bottom line look at your policy i.m sure it says to use gloves and as soon as you tear the finger out the glove might as well not be used. You can try to rationalize it all you want the gloves are made with 4 finger and 1 thumb leave them intact.
How does the patient know that the person sticking them with a needle does not have hep, hiv, or anything else that could be passed on as soon as the needle enters the skin the protective barrier is broken, now if a latex condem has holes in it the diease can enter so it also makes sense if someone rips the fingertip off of their glove then the person is put at risk for anything the nurse may have on her hands but even worse the things that is running thur the nurses body. if it is not also for pt protection then why do we dress out with mask, gowns and gloves when a pt is on reverse isolation? To protect them from something that may be on our body clothes and in our lungs.
I've got to call malarky on this comment. If you have no better understanding of disease transmission than this than I suggest you pick your text books back up. Every BS blood-borne-pathogens class I've ever taken has explained transmission routes better than what you describe.
Yes that is true until the nurse has a cut,tear stick that would brake his/her skin bottom line look at your policy i.m sure it says to use gloves and as soon as you tear the finger out the glove might as well not be used. You can try to rationalize it all you want the gloves are made with 4 finger and 1 thumb leave them intact.
If I have a "brake" in my skin on the heel of my hand, is covered by the remaining part of the glove, is not bleeding and never comes close to the site of the stick, explain to me how something would get transmitted?
Specializes in Trauma Surgery, Nursing Management.
another story from my nursing instructor... a super long time ago, she worked with another nurse who incidentally had long acrylic nails (before hospitals banned those - that long ago!) this nurse was getting ready to remove a fecal impaction. she had a horrible time trying to glove up (imagine that with long nails!) and she finally got frustrated and said, "oh *#$!" then she ripped the gloves completely off and proceeded with the procedure!
was this patient subsequently posted for a colectomy after disimpaction by nurse wolverine from x-men?
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
Ok I keep seeing people saying the Nurse might have this or that and none of that matters.
EVEN IF the nurse didn't wash her hands. If she preformed the procedure properly she still would not pass anything onto the patient because she would palpate and vind the vein, then she would CLEAN THE AREA and let dry. Then the ONLY contact with the area would be the STERILE needle. So again, the nurse can have HIV, Hep C, MRSA, etc. etc. and it would not matter. The only thing touching the area that was just cleaned is that sterile needle.
I mean this isn't rocket science. It's simple commen sense. Should someone wear gloves, sure. But let's not pretend it's for the patients protection when we are talking about a needle stick. It's for the Nurses protection.
You can come up with a million scenarios that sound good but are non issues because the bottom line is the area gets cleaned and not touched again after. If the nurse has to re-palpate the vein then it is cleaned again.
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cherrybreeze, ADN, RN
1,405 Posts
That's the point, though. The theory IS based on handwashing, but how could it account for those that don't? The gloves still don't matter if that's the case; the gloves were in that person's hands before they put them on....and now contain whatever germs would have BEEN on the hands. Not any better.
Apples to oranges, sorry. If the nurse performing the stick has HIV or Hep C or whatever, how does him/her wearing gloves protect you from that any more than not? So, a needle enters your skin and breaks that barrier....but the nurses' hands, gloved or not, do not come in contact with that site, or the needle. Irrelevant.
Thank you wooh, you beat me to it. Those dirty, filthy hands just reached in to the glove box, grabbed two gloves, and held/manipulated them to put them on. Gloves now = dirty, filthy hands.