Topic of the Day: GO AWAY FOREIGN NURSES!

World Immigration

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This is exactly how I feel each time I log into the International Forum. I don't feel welcome as a foreign born nurse. I don't feel respected as a minority in this country. All I feel is the hatred and insults thrown at us simply because we are not Americans.

So let's talk about it, since threads were locked and posts were deleted because they were "out of the topic" hence we could not freely express and justify how we feel about the criticisms on foreign born and/or foreign trained nurses. Each and every time I read something that "put down" certain minorities, it makes me feel sick to my stomach. Being discriminated all my life, I truly understand how other foreign nurses, especially the Filipino nurses, feel. No, you simply won't understand if you were not in our shoes.

Every one has his/her point of view on certain issues, but attacking, criticizing and (worst) making generalizations of other races, cultures and beliefs is just not right, insensitive and ethnocentric. Yes, we are immigrants, but you don't have to yell it to our face. The US would not have prosper if not for the immigrants. Don't forget your family or ancestors were once immigrants as well, unless you are Native Americans. So you have no rights to ask us get out if we are legally here, unless this is your native land. Remember, America is the land of opportunity that were built through slavery from Africa and Asia.

I wonder sometimes, how could you be a professional nurse if you are culturally insensitive? How could you offer the best care if all you think is your own self and your own beliefs, and disregard other culture and belief systems? I see nurses here with 30 plus years of experience do not practice the basic fundamental of nursing. Maybe they should go back to square one and learn it from Potter and Perry.

This IS an International forum. This forum is for every one regardless of age, gender, color, etc. If you say something culturally insensitive in other forum, maybe we will think that you are just plain stupid or has never been out of the country. But, if you are persistently saying something that insult and disgrace other cultures, races, nationality and etc, I think something should be done by the moderators...unless the moderators themselves are not sensitive enough on this issue as well.

Well, Merry Christmas everyone (no, I'm not Christian...but I know many are here) and thank you for listening.

Aelith, you have to realize that there are, really, only a few posters who barge into just about every thread and do that. I have observed this, too, but it's such a small number of people that I think it would behoove you all to learn to ignore them or, better yet, put them on "ignore" so that you don't even see their posts.

It *is* hurtful. I work with a nurse who doesn't think that anyone should be allowed to become a nurse except the way she did. When she make a snarky comment to me last week I was offended and she at least had the grace to apologize to me - of course, while defending her position. :banghead:

Really, the ignore feature is your friend. It does not work if someone quotes them, but if no one gives them any attention they'll either go away or get so frustrated that they escalate into a TOS violation and will end up banned.

It's hard. Someone got on my nerves so badly recently that I ended up getting points for insulting her in a thread. Was it worth it? Kinda, but mostly I was annoyed at myself for taking the bait, y'know?

Don't allow people to bring you down.

:redbeathe

I agree with you in most parts but everyone should realize that the ignore function only works individually and some members expects the TOS to be enforced consistently. If the issue being raised is allegations of discriminatory, xenophobic, or prejudice remarks a simple ignore function doesn't really do much. It's still there for everyone to see and read. People. all over the world read these bulletin boards. The registered members and paid member aren;t even half the story. There are far more people lurking and reading this BB as "guests" and they don't have ignore functions. Also, if there are already a significant number of members complaining or citing their grievances from a good cross-section of the site from diff. nationalities, including a few Americans, the staff should look into it and not resort into defending themselves publicly.

Also, if members resort to publicly starting a thread instead of reporting it or using the admin help desk means they may not trust that anything may not be done regarding it. And after reading the posts in this thread and from the responses so far, I do not think anything will be done either. Some may even regard some responses as being 'arrogant'.

And really, what is moderating or banning a few offensive members with regards to loosing more members as a result of not doing anything on those few members?? Those few members you refer to who do what you say are already considered internet trolls. Preventing members in barging in threads a.k.a. hi-jacking threads and injecting controversial and off-topic posts not related on the thread itself and sometime may not even be related to the sub-forum most often times results ultimately in more arguments and hate.

This is from the TOS:

Hate Speech and Inappropriate Generalizations

It is important to remember that this bulletin board reaches out to nurses and other readers all over the world. Our call is to be supportive, not divisive. Because of this, discrimination, racial vilification and offensive generalizations targeting people of other races, religions and/or nationalities will not be tolerated.

Being a premium or a platinum member should also not be a hindrance in enforcing the TOS. The paid membership is only there to give extra benefits and should not be used as an excuse for not enforcing it.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
I think this thread has helped reach out to those people involved (both sides) and hopefully things will be better later on. Let's try to leave all the negative stuff in this thread and start anew from here too. ;)

Thank you. I hope that both sides can continue to honestly express their feelings, but then move forward in a positive direction.

Thanks yogi for posting this.. We have the same sentiments..I plan to post something like this but i was afraid to do so ..Coz i noticed that once a foreign nurse (or filipino nurses to be more specific) post some questions about going to US,or post something about filipino nurses,certain members in this forum bombard us with comments which i really find offensive.There are days when i stop myself from visiting the site because there's too much negativity towards us Filipinos.I understand their concern but sometimes they are really hitting below the belt.. They may not understand how it feels to be ridiculed,how it feels when they try to slap to our faces(or monitors to be exact) about how incompetent we are,how low our NLE passing rate,how low our NLCEX passing rate compared to theirs,how they try to generalize that all of the citizens here wants to be a nurse,etc....There is some truth to what they say but at least they should say it without making us feel insulted.Some posts really sound so arrogant. I felt so unwelcome lately in this forum especially that these certain members and moderators defend each other and i know that if i try to post something,it will be me against them. I know a lot of filipinos are just lurking and are also afraid like me to post. And that is why I am really thankful that these past few days,some foreign nurses are already coming out and voicing out their sentiments.

We are all nurses here and as nurses,we are trained to be sensitive to the needs,culture and feelings of our patients. I guess that we should also apply this basic principle to our fellow nurses.

2008 is about to end and hopefully this ongoing negativity too.. I hope that we all have a fresh start this 2009 in this forum.LET'S HELP EACH OTHER,NOT INSULT EACH OTHER.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE!:nuke:

Notes from a foreign-trained nurse:

1. I believe that America is a great country. As a professional nurse who's been patiently waiting for a visa for years now, I sometimes wish though that other countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc had opened their doors earlier had I known that processing time in the US is this long. compared to others who also claim a need for nurses. But it's over the hill now as I had all but practically invested my time, money & efforts needted to reach US.

2. The main reason we want to leave our country is to elevate our standard of living and ANY country greater than ours is an alluring destination. However, we value the feeling that we are indeed welcome. I emphatize with FT-nurses-in-waiting when I get to read posts w/c are disheartening.

3. There are excellent US-trained nurses as there are excellent Foreign-trained nurses, and same way for the unskilled ones. I'd suppose though that FT-nurses who were offered jobs were properly selected by the employer hospitals and should some nurses be guilty of incompetence later on, it will be blown back to their faces and be shown the door. Like some, I don't go for stereotyping & making harsh generalizations.

4. Where we wanna go is a big personal decision. Forums help people interact & share and not to ridicule. I've seen AllNurses to be a big help to most readers but I have to agree that there were truly some posts w/c were degrading to the Filipinos, and if you are an experienced, skilled Filipino nurse, you can't help but be offended by the generally negative picture drawn by some posters & moderators.

5. We must admit that there are flaws and bad governance in the field of Phil nursing as the mass production of nurses had gone out of control. But I believe that foreign employers are smart enough to discern & separate the qualified from the non-q. Now instead of giving yourself a headache over the silly things happening here (& interjecting it to some posts each time you get a chance even though a poster's question is not related to it & magnifying it repeatedly), let our own people suffer the consequences.

6. When you choose America, you are bound by its laws & regulations, we have no right to complain but best to do is respect its policy on immigration-and wait it out---or not. It's always one's decision.

7. Filipinos were raised to be patient & hopeful & believing. Traits that may be useful or lead you to dreamland & destruction. We Filipinos should take it positively when we are urged to be "realistic".

8. Everything said should be in moderation. We must avoid being overly sensitive or too insensitive as someone is bound to get hurt aling the lines. Not what you say but how you say it, huh? May all nurses be gifted with the art & science of therapeutic communication- an apt nursing skill we must put to heart.

-Peace and all the best!--mariel.

I have always loved allnurses especially the exchange of information among nurses. But I do believe that in a forum, someone should be neutral at all times. In a debate, the moderator serves as the equalizer; the buffer in a solution; the uniform in a school; and the administrator in a hospital.

I have observed that some moderators have been very vocal with their personal convictions and they sometimes fail to become neutral. Others also tend to be so “All Knowing” and have been to all places all the time. And some would post the same information over and over again.

I appreciate the invaluable information and expertise from our moderators, but we are all fallible. WE cannot be so “all knowing” all the time. Nurses would like to hear information from other nurses and not only from a single person.

Happy Christmas to all!

Specializes in ER.
I feel sick just because I posted how I felt about this forum, I got bombarded by many moderators. This is really unfair.

I am married to an American man and I believe my husband is not ethnocentric at all.

I don't see that you have been bombarded by moderators. Rather, they are perhaps trying to give an American perspective on your issues. I have never visited the international forum, so I am not aware of what goes on there. However, I can tell in any industry, when unemployment rates go up in America, as they have recently, and foreigners come into the country and get jobs, it takes a job away from an American citizen. Those people tend to get angry when they have been a nurse for years, and can't get hired for what they are worth because there are others coming in and getting the jobs for less wages. Nursing is not the only field this is happening in. I can see that you are really impassioned about this. Have you possibly read more into posts than what is there? I sort of scanned through there and didn't find anything that was prejudiced....maybe rude, but Americans are known for that. Just my :twocents:.

Yang

Actually, having lived there, Americans are among the nicest people on earth, which is a prime reason why I want to go back.

There seems to be some unwritten rule that it's OK to slag off Americans. At least Americans don't whine.

Specializes in CTICU.
Those people tend to get angry when they have been a nurse for years, and can't get hired for what they are worth because there are others coming in and getting the jobs for less wages.

This is not correct. When sponsoring foreign nurses, facilities have to complete labor certification which ensures that they are paid at least the prevailing wage - not less. In addition, they have to prove why they can't hire an American to do the job - generally they can't get anyone to do it, despite advertising. Please don't perpetuate false information.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
There seems to be some unwritten rule that it's OK to slag off Americans. At least Americans don't whine.

Huh???? Americans are some of the most whiniest complainingest folks on Earth. We don't realize how good we have it and whine over the most trivial of things. LOL

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

I'm sorry that you felt "bombarded by many moderators".

It makes it difficult because we are seeing two different things. I see a couple of us moderators trying to engage in dialog and you see that you're being bombarded by many moderators.

I see the International Forum full of questions and answers, and yes a few difficult threads and you see nothing but hate and personal attacks.

Guess it's just individual perspective and we're not going to be able to see eye to eye.

I am an American, but I am a foreign nurse. I am a Filipino. I am deathly afraid of posting on the international boards and at the Philippine boards, not only because of the Americans who post responses there, but also because of the Filipino nurses.

Over the years this forum has been very helpful to foreign nurses. I have seen the moderators try to answer each and every query posted by new foreign nurses. They go to great lengths to repeat certain information for the benefit of the first time posters.

Having said this, I would like to say that there are a group of posters who have their own agenda on this forum, any discussion on immigration or retrogression ends up turning into a diatribe against foreign nurses, where negative generalized comments are made against foreign nurses belonging to certain countries. It seems that anyone can pass comments against the nursing education system and quailty of nurses of a certain country and the only justification that need be provided is "this is what I see here".

The underlying message from these posters to foreign nurses seems to be 'you are unqualified, incompetent, inexperienced cheap labour and we dont need you here but I am saying this because I care for you".

To the ones who say, that this is not exactly racism or gender or sex bias, I just have to say that unfair discrimination in any form should be discouraged, it need not fit any recognised 'isms'.

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