This is exactly how I feel each time I log into the International Forum. I don't feel welcome as a foreign born nurse. I don't feel respected as a minority in this country. All I feel is the hatred and insults thrown at us simply because we are not Americans.
So let's talk about it, since threads were locked and posts were deleted because they were "out of the topic" hence we could not freely express and justify how we feel about the criticisms on foreign born and/or foreign trained nurses. Each and every time I read something that "put down" certain minorities, it makes me feel sick to my stomach. Being discriminated all my life, I truly understand how other foreign nurses, especially the Filipino nurses, feel. No, you simply won't understand if you were not in our shoes.
Every one has his/her point of view on certain issues, but attacking, criticizing and (worst) making generalizations of other races, cultures and beliefs is just not right, insensitive and ethnocentric. Yes, we are immigrants, but you don't have to yell it to our face. The US would not have prosper if not for the immigrants. Don't forget your family or ancestors were once immigrants as well, unless you are Native Americans. So you have no rights to ask us get out if we are legally here, unless this is your native land. Remember, America is the land of opportunity that were built through slavery from Africa and Asia.
I wonder sometimes, how could you be a professional nurse if you are culturally insensitive? How could you offer the best care if all you think is your own self and your own beliefs, and disregard other culture and belief systems? I see nurses here with 30 plus years of experience do not practice the basic fundamental of nursing. Maybe they should go back to square one and learn it from Potter and Perry.
This IS an International forum. This forum is for every one regardless of age, gender, color, etc. If you say something culturally insensitive in other forum, maybe we will think that you are just plain stupid or has never been out of the country. But, if you are persistently saying something that insult and disgrace other cultures, races, nationality and etc, I think something should be done by the moderators...unless the moderators themselves are not sensitive enough on this issue as well.
Well, Merry Christmas everyone (no, I'm not Christian...but I know many are here) and thank you for listening.
Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.
brian takes great pride in an being a website where "all nurses" can come and share together both the pride and pitfalls of our profession. we are continually "tweeking" how best to serve our membership, provide consistent moderation across all the forums, and ongoing education to our volunteer mod team on improving communication skills.
our terms of service is basis for moderation. when a posters thoughts are 180% opposite to conventional nursing wisdom or thread discussion.......the ones that leave you asking: "did i really just read that.........what are they thinking!!!!!!............ how could that post that garbagexxx!!!xxx".......... we look to tos to see if posts violates it. just because we personally don't like an opinion or stance, is not a reason to close a thread or ban members....except for those pesky shoe/clothing spammers. there are times that members don't want to hear or accept our advice. unless we post links to official info from us immigration, us laws, state boards of nursing, nclex, pna/ana all info posted here is advice or opinion and one is free to accept or toss it.
within the international forums, it's even more difficult as cultural preferences and norms can be so different! we've added international nurses from australia, england and phillipines to our moderating staff over the years to have a more global view, educate and address cultural issues that mod team might not be aware.... (learned word fanny can be very offensive, despite my thinking just another word for buttocks).
since we are 100% volunteer and don't get to see everything posted, please use these tools to grab our attention:
report: used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.
icon found left corner each post.
admin help desk: please use admin help desk for issues regarding your account or for administrative contacts.
messages are private between you and admin team with brian included in receipt.
link found at bottom every page under "need help"
admin team does read every report and help desk post and will respond to concern.
I have taken the time to read one of the stickies NRSKaren has posted one of the articles describes a program which is very similar to a Newly licensed nurse program except on steriods. If you look at the Phases of the TIENS Program you will see a program that will meet the IEN needs, hospital, and the needs of the IEN co workers.
Unfortunately, this is very expensive program but it seems like a very effective one.
Hospitals now can not afford the extra expensive. Many US nurses who attend a newly license nurse program do not get paid a full salary.
In my opinion a win - win program, the newly graduated IEN could either not get a salary or
pay a fee for attending the program ( the fee could be refunded once they are employed by the hospital).
For experience IEN nurses a shorten program would be offered.
My other idea is that all nurses take a skills test before being either licensed or employed, that is what IE physicians do.
My concern is patient safety, I don't think a new grad ( American or IEN) can function safely without their skills verifies by objective criteria.
Wow!! Y'all must read a different allnurses.com than I do! I've often read in the international forum and have not noticed the hatred and prejudice noted in this thread. Anybody have *specific* examples of such??
This is exactly how I feel each time I log into the International Forum. I don't feel welcome as a foreign born nurse. I don't feel respected as a minority in this country. All I feel is the hatred and insults thrown at us simply because we are not Americans.
So let's talk about it, since threads were locked and posts were deleted because they were "out of the topic" hence we could not freely express and justify how we feel about the criticisms on foreign born and/or foreign trained nurses. Each and every time I read something that "put down" certain minorities, it makes me feel sick to my stomach. Being discriminated all my life, I truly understand how other foreign nurses, especially the Filipino nurses, feel. No, you simply won't understand if you were not in our shoes.
Every one has his/her point of view on certain issues, but attacking, criticizing and (worst) making generalizations of other races, cultures and beliefs is just not right, insensitive and ethnocentric. Yes, we are immigrants, but you don't have to yell it to our face. The US would not have prosper if not for the immigrants. Don't forget your family or ancestors were once immigrants as well, unless you are Native Americans. So you have no rights to ask us get out if we are legally here, unless this is your native land. Remember, America is the land of opportunity that were built through slavery from Africa and Asia.
I wonder sometimes, how could you be a professional nurse if you are culturally insensitive? How could you offer the best care if all you think is your own self and your own beliefs, and disregard other culture and belief systems? I see nurses here with 30 plus years of experience do not practice the basic fundamental of nursing. Maybe they should go back to square one and learn it from Potter and Perry.
This IS an International forum. This forum is for every one regardless of age, gender, color, etc. If you say something culturally insensitive in other forum, maybe we will think that you are just plain stupid or has never been out of the country. But, if you are persistently saying something that insult and disgrace other cultures, races, nationality and etc, I think something should be done by the moderators...unless the moderators themselves are not sensitive enough on this issue as well.
Well, Merry Christmas everyone (no, I'm not Christian...but I know many are here) and thank you for listening.
Actually, having lived there, Americans are among the nicest people on earth, which is a prime reason why I want to go back.
There seems to be some unwritten rule that it's OK to slag off Americans. At least Americans don't whine.
the issue here is NOT really about foreign nurse vs. americans. Our grievances are not directed to ALL americans but to certain posters in this forum. let me be just clear on that.I do not even care if they came form America or any other country,but the point is that these posters repeatedly comment negative issues about foreign nurses.
Some people here may have difficulty seeing those posts as offensive because they are not really the one being subjected to such discrimination over and over and over again. but lets try to exchange places and put your selves to our shoes. Example,IF we foreign nurses brand all americans as insensitive know -it -all,you would really react to such general statements,right? thats our case too-just that the generalizeD statements against us are much worse than that.
SO TO MAKE THIS CLEAR: THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT US AGAINST AMERICANS BUT TO CERTAIN POSTERS WHO REPEATEDLY MAKE OFFENSIVE GENERALIZED STATEMENTS AGAINST FOREIGN NURSES.
I can guess what is meant, but it's only a guess so an example would really help and we could discuss it then.
I'm a foreign nurse and I found some threads maybe a bit on the edge but yeah, an example would help to express our feelings
and give a focused statement.
thanks
5cats
hhmm personally i find this statement offensive..I dont know with other filipinos..But for the sake of giving an example,let's try this..
when i went to recent vacation in philippines ... i found out that not only is every other citizen studying to be a nurse....all the bumper sticker in jeepneys, tricycles , cabs say "My wife is a nurse" or "BSN" stickies everywhere....as i said everybody is a second courser from doctors, bank tellers, dentists, etc. There are a lot of Come and Go bootleg nursing schools that opened and closed..nursing students not only pay cash under the table /buy gifts/snacks/invite family party events not only to instructors to complete school requirements but also pay the OR /labor and delivery room nurses who promises surgical patients to students who comes up with SERIOUS CASH ( a bit like casino ) be provided with a 'PATIENT" FIRST or suffer the risk to be disqualified from semester because of the stiff competition between the regular 4 year students vs the second courser.
...but I don't see why they don't feel that US trained nurses can also be incompetent. All nurses (foreign or local trained) will go through the same exams and screening so I don't see the point why they still think that in spite of passing all the qualifications required, they still brand some foreign trained nurses as incompetent. If they feel that foreign trained nurses are that bad, they should probably address their concerns to the proper authority and not to the foreign nurses.~ :)
Aelith, there are many schools here in the US that are very questionable...I've come across some incompetent American nurses, and you really have to wonder, how did they ever pass the boards...Go on Californias BON site and you can see some of the pass rates...there are quite a few that are very below average in passing....what happens is when the schools show underperformance they're put on probation and they have a certain amount of time to bring up the pass rate...If they don't do that, then the school has their accredidation taken away...Is that how it works in other countries?
As I've stated before, anybody can take the NCLEX exam, all you have to do is study...But what matters is what you've learned and if you're able to apply it once you're out in the field...if you weren't taught properly and didn't have sufficient clinical experience, it will show on the floor...Foreign or local, doesn't matter it will show...
Regarding your last statement about the locals voicing their concerns to their local representatives, believe me when I say this, it's happening and the reps are very aware of what's going on.
hhmm personally i find this statement offensive..I dont know with other filipinos..But for the sake of giving an example,let's try this..
when i went to recent vacation in philippines ... i found out that not only is every other citizen studying to be a nurse....all the bumper sticker in jeepneys, tricycles , cabs say "My wife is a nurse" or "BSN" stickies everywhere....as i said everybody is a second courser from doctors, bank tellers, dentists, etc. There are a lot of Come and Go bootleg nursing schools that opened and closed..nursing students not only pay cash under the table /buy gifts/snacks/invite family party events not only to instructors to complete school requirements but also pay the OR /labor and delivery room nurses who promises surgical patients to students who comes up with SERIOUS CASH ( a bit like casino ) be provided with a 'PATIENT" FIRST or suffer the risk to be disqualified from semester because of the stiff competition between the regular 4 year students vs the second courser.
.where else of a country can you find that?...
Well, I don't know who wrote that as you didn't quote it but I can assure you that an American didn't write that. Look at the English used and the grammar.
Hate to say it but what American uses phrases like 'second courser?' What's a second courser? Do you mean non-traditional or second degree student?
While that can be offensive on a 'national' level that post in and of itself is neither racist nor ethnocentric. Insensitive maybe. Nationalistic definitely.
I'd agree that the post is probably adding nothing of use to the conversation but to say it is racist/ethnocentric is reaching.
If there is a questionable post you should report it. I've never seen moderators let a offensive post slide when it's been reported. Not sure about the International forum but the Politics forum gets pretty heated. Maybe you guys should give the moderators a chance. I keep seeing accusations of them being unfair. Maybe one but ALL of them? That's a little to unbelievable. They are all different people.
Well I suppose its no longer necessary that I shall include the username. I dont want to because I still have some respect for him. But the thread can be found in the philippine forum-the american dream:do not lose hope. It doesnt matter where he is coming from-the point is that I just wanna show you some specific statements so you'll understand more why we are "whining" like this..
Not sure if he is originally from america but I think that he is in america right now..
Greetings everyone... Although this is my first post, this is not my first visit to Allnurses. I guess you can say I am one of those "lurkers". I find this website extremely beneficial to ALL nurses and for those who wish to be nurses no matter where they live.
Why has this particular International post caught my interest? A little background about my self. I am an American citizen, with an American father and filipino mother. I have been afforded the opportunity to live overseas while growing up and I have always said those were one of the best times of my life. But America is where my home is now. This forum interests me because I come from a family of nurses on my father's side and on my mother's side. I have relatives who are RNs in America and in the Philippines. I am so proud of all of them and their accomplishments and I can only hope that one day I will be able to join the proud group of nurses. You see my life has taken me on many different paths, and now that I am "older and wiser" I am on the road to finish what I have started many moons ago. I recently became a CNA while taking up my pre-req's for nursing. I have also worked as an MA for 5 years.
There seems to be hard feelings among some of the nurses here. Part of the sensitivity could very well be cultural. I have read hours of posts about nurses wanting to come to the United States to work. I have also read hours of responses from members and moderators on what the present situation is in our country. I can understand why many filipinos want to leave the Philippines to pursue their own American dream, but I also see how many Americans are struggling to live their own dreams. I feel that the members and moderators have done an excellent job in trying to explain in the best and most sensitive way. It is not about Americans vs. Foreign Nurses it is about reality. There are so many nurse graduates in the Philippines and not enough visas to support all those nurses. There are unemployed nurses in the U.S. who must/ need to support their families. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Because there are many unemployed RN's in the Philippines I believe that many would be resentful to American nurses if the Philippine government would allow them to practice nursing in the Philippines when there is an abundant supply of their own citizens to work.
Like many of the other posters I could not find any thing racist or discriminating against filipino nurses. Some times as humans we become sensitive to issues when we do not feel that one agrees with our issue. The only way one can make us feel discriminated is that if we allow them to. One day our borders will open up again to foreign nurses in the mean time we have to allow the U.S. government to take care of its citizens so that we can once again become prosperous and in turn jobs will be available not only to Americans but to anyone who wishes to come to America to work.
If there is a questionable post you should report it. I've never seen moderators let a offensive post slide when it's been reported. Not sure about the International forum but the Politics forum gets pretty heated. Maybe you guys should give the moderators a chance. I keep seeing accusations of them being unfair. Maybe one but ALL of them? That's a little to unbelievable. They are all different people.
NO,we are not saying ALL of the moderators are being unfair.. I did not say anything like that. Maybe a two or three,but really thats just my opinion.
Yes,I tried to report it using admin help desk. As to what we have discussed there,I guess its no longer necessary to say it here publicly.
:yeah:
NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN
10 Articles; 19,184 Posts
brian takes great pride in an being a website where "all nurses" can come and share together both the pride and pitfalls of our profession. we are continually "tweeking" how best to serve our membership, provide consistent moderation across all the forums, and ongoing education to our volunteer mod team on improving communication skills.
our terms of service is basis for moderation. when a posters thoughts are 180% opposite to conventional nursing wisdom or thread discussion.......the ones that leave you asking: "did i really just read that.........what are they thinking!!!!!!............ how could that post that garbagexxx!!!xxx".......... we look to tos to see if posts violates it. just because we personally don't like an opinion or stance, is not a reason to close a thread or ban members....except for those pesky shoe/clothing spammers.
there are times that members don't want to hear or accept our advice. unless we post links to official info from us immigration, us laws, state boards of nursing, nclex, pna/ana all info posted here is advice or opinion and one is free to accept or toss it.
within the international forums, it's even more difficult as cultural preferences and norms can be so different! we've added international nurses from australia, england and phillipines to our moderating staff over the years to have a more global view, educate and address cultural issues that mod team might not be aware.... (learned word fanny can be very offensive, despite my thinking just another word for buttocks).
since we are 100% volunteer and don't get to see everything posted, please use these tools to grab our attention:
icon found left corner each post.
admin help desk: please use admin help desk for issues regarding your account or for administrative contacts.
messages are private between you and admin team with brian included in receipt.
link found at bottom every page under "need help"
admin team does read every report and help desk post and will respond to concern.