Topic of the Day: GO AWAY FOREIGN NURSES!

World Immigration

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This is exactly how I feel each time I log into the International Forum. I don't feel welcome as a foreign born nurse. I don't feel respected as a minority in this country. All I feel is the hatred and insults thrown at us simply because we are not Americans.

So let's talk about it, since threads were locked and posts were deleted because they were "out of the topic" hence we could not freely express and justify how we feel about the criticisms on foreign born and/or foreign trained nurses. Each and every time I read something that "put down" certain minorities, it makes me feel sick to my stomach. Being discriminated all my life, I truly understand how other foreign nurses, especially the Filipino nurses, feel. No, you simply won't understand if you were not in our shoes.

Every one has his/her point of view on certain issues, but attacking, criticizing and (worst) making generalizations of other races, cultures and beliefs is just not right, insensitive and ethnocentric. Yes, we are immigrants, but you don't have to yell it to our face. The US would not have prosper if not for the immigrants. Don't forget your family or ancestors were once immigrants as well, unless you are Native Americans. So you have no rights to ask us get out if we are legally here, unless this is your native land. Remember, America is the land of opportunity that were built through slavery from Africa and Asia.

I wonder sometimes, how could you be a professional nurse if you are culturally insensitive? How could you offer the best care if all you think is your own self and your own beliefs, and disregard other culture and belief systems? I see nurses here with 30 plus years of experience do not practice the basic fundamental of nursing. Maybe they should go back to square one and learn it from Potter and Perry.

This IS an International forum. This forum is for every one regardless of age, gender, color, etc. If you say something culturally insensitive in other forum, maybe we will think that you are just plain stupid or has never been out of the country. But, if you are persistently saying something that insult and disgrace other cultures, races, nationality and etc, I think something should be done by the moderators...unless the moderators themselves are not sensitive enough on this issue as well.

Well, Merry Christmas everyone (no, I'm not Christian...but I know many are here) and thank you for listening.

I'm not offended. I get frustrated by rhetoric.

Don't you think who wins the scholarship should depend on who is more qualified, not what nationality they are????

59% of foreign students get aid... compared to what, 100% of US students? What's your point?

Did you notice the next headline down on that website you posted?

"The foreign student system is an easy avenue of entry for foreign terrorists"

Yeah, okay. Let's get back to the topic of the thread. No, I haven't noticed any xenophobia whatsoever lately.... :banghead:

two things...not 100% of students get aid, if you are a single female/male living alone, working FT, and trying to go to school, you will not qualify for FA (atleat I couldn't and I was making 6.00/hr, but that was in '97) I was told I made to much money and if I had a dependent my chances for finacial would improve 100%. So in other words get pregnant and try again. Now I am married and I have 2 children. My chances for financial aid have improved but since they determine your eligibilty based on the previous yrs taxes, it's possible that combined my hubby and I would make too much money for me to get any financial aid. So again NO HELP. Unless I quit my job and not work for a yr to qualify again next yr.

and the "The foreign student system is an easy avenue of entry for foreign terrorists" issue. I guess since 9/11 and the recent conviction of the 5 immigrants accused of scheming to massacre U.S. soldiers at Fort Dix. Forgive me if I am a little cautious.

But yes. Back to the original topic, Like I said this is a topic that needs a thread of it's own.

Sorry if I offended anyone. That is not my intent.

Specializes in ER.
Don't you think who wins the scholarship should depend on who is more qualified, not what nationality they are????

59% of foreign students get aid... compared to what, 100% of US students? What's your point?

I just finished nursing school and not only was I unable to get financial aid, I couldn't even get personal loans. As far as the scholarships, I think (yes, think as in opinion of mine) those in the country where the scholarship comes from should get first dibs on it. Frankly, with our economy where it is, America needs to learn to take care of it's own for a while and quit worrying about making the world better for everyone else.

Yang

Specializes in Nurse Anesthetist.
Being a member of this site, I am raising my motion to suspend this thread until further review from the admin/moderators.

This thread has caused plenty of us be deeply emotional and infuriated.

Begging the Admins and moderators in the house to do something about this. The integrity of this forum will so much be at stake if left like this.

This has been the talk of the town lately by most of the forums out there and I assume you know well about this.

Please consider this for goodness sake.

i think there are still some misunderstandings with regards to the points each side is trying to say.

misconception #1: some people think that foreign trained rns are not aware of the real situation that is happening in america.

truth: the foreign trained rns (majority) know very well what is happening in america including retrogression, recession, and the bad economy. it is after all in the news and even in the forum and has been like this for quite some time.

misconception #2: when some foreign trained nurses posts their sentiments - hopes, aspirations, etc., it doesn't mean that they are being ignorant of what is happening in the us or being unrealistic.

truth: foreign trained rns acknowledge whatever that is happening in the states but decided to continue hoping and risk. they are just hoping and trying to remain positive without being ignorant. they are merely expecting the worst but still hoping for the best.

misconception #3: some of the american posters (moderators and members), have pure bad intentions whenever they barge into threads and post the same info over and over even if the information they are providing are not really asked by the op or any other person in the specific threads.

truth: (my opinion) some of the american posters (moderators and members), may have good intentions regarding their comments and posts and do not intend to hurt anyone. the problem maybe is the way they put their thoughts into words - people may perceive or receive the message in a different tone or meaning. the other problem i see is that they (some american posters) won't stop unless you take their side and acknowledge it - at least that is how one would feel whenever some try to push their thoughts over and over and over especially when it is not really the topic.

misconception #4: there are no problem or any hate-related comments and the like in the threads.

truth: there are really some of them in several threads. it maybe nothing or unimportant or okay for some but remember that it may not be okay for the others reading it. we are all different and we are all affected in a different way. people from different countries/nationalities won't be posting their sentiments on such if it's just a bluff.

it doesn't also mean that they (those posting their sentiments) are being too sensitive about it. these people (including me) may have just been keeping all their bad feelings to themselves and later on decided to voice it out, especially when they can't take it anymore or when they think it is going out of hand.

misconception #5: this is about foreign trained nurses' situation in the us and any other related foreign trained rns issues.

truth: this thread is all about the sentiments some foreign trained rns have towards the posts of some american posters (moderators and members). this is neither about retrogression/immigration nor how foreign trained rns are in the us. this is just about feelings.

misconception #6: the whole forum is anti-foreign rn, or bad or unhelpful as a whole.

truth: the forum or even the whole international and philippine sections are not bad. this forum is really really helpful for everyone. it just have some threads with a not-so-friendly atmosphere but majority are really good threads - really helpful and informative. majority of the posters and moderators/admins are really helpful and kind.

i maybe wrong with these but for me, this is what i have observed. maybe, the other concerned posters can explain their true reasons too why they try to push some ideas over and over. because, they may also be just another victim of some of these misunderstandings. such misunderstandings have hurt people from both sides, i really hope things will be better for all of us. :)

I have been a member of this wonderful site for more than two years now and when ever I have an opportuniy to chat with fellow filipino nurses, I make it a point to inform them about allnurses.com, I guess it makes me one of its promoters.hehe.

But there are also instances that they already knew of this site,and how it has become an "anti-filipino".They believe that some of the moderators here are bias.Though I regret to hear that, I still believe that the forums in general have helped a lot of nurses worldwide in their inquiries and often confuse situations.

The reality is, we can not dictate and control the minds of this people,they can actually say whatever they want,they have the liberty of doing that,however, we should also not allow the words of certain people to pull us down, we are better than that, and we truly know ourselves and capabilities.We do not have to prove ourselves ,all the time.

It is sometimes ironic, that we our united in giving the bestcare for our clients and yet,we failed to help our own fellow nurses who are in need, so much insensitivity.

Its holiday season, the site has a "new" look..Hope members and visitors in this site may see the truest beauty and purpose of allnurses,as well as the UPCOMING changes.

Godbless us all NURSES! where ever you may be. :heartbeat

that's quite exactly what I also wanted to express, thank you for saying it.. Merry Christmas brother!

Specializes in Dialysis, Nephrology & Cosmetic Surgery.

I personally think the only thing that really bothers me about foreigners. Is that they can come here to America, get a college education/degree for free and return to there homeland and use the degree they earned here in America. I know it's not there fault and that it's our government that offers that to them. But that's a whole other topic to be discussed.

Unless someone has won some sort of scholarship they will be paying for the privilage of gaining an education. The same thing applies for those who come to the UK, and they pay a considerable amount so don't think the US government is doing this out of kindness - it is a way of generating income.

I am one of those "foreigners" hoping to emigrate to the US but if / when I do arrive I hope I will be an ANP - at no cost at all to anyone in the US, and feel I have a lot to offer the US.

It's interesting and educational to read the variety of opinions expressed in this thread. That's what a forum is supposed to be-- a place for discussing and debating. A forum is not a question-and-answer session; it is real people sharing their thoughts and opinions from their own perspectives. Sometimes debates become heated, and for the most part I think that's OK. It's good to be passionate about your beliefs. If we all agreed about everything, this would be an awfully dull message board!

In the past, I have seen posters try and close down discussions when they felt too many people were expressing opinions that they did not agree with. In some cases the moderators have closed down discussions, and sometimes I think they did so to appease those who were offended by the posts they didn't agree with. The TOS is clear on what is acceptable and what is not, and for people to want to close a thread for any other reason is just plain wrong.

We all perceive things from our own cultural standpoint. For example, last fall, in an episode of "Desperate Housewives," a joke was made about Filipino doctors which led to the Philippine government asking for an apology from ABC. My guess is that most Filipinos thought that was an appropriate response to a perceived slur. But from an American perspective, it was one joke in a show with many jokes, and would have been soon forgotten if not for the outcry which ensued. People worldwide make jokes about George Bush, and for the most part, Americans accept this, since we value freedom of speech. The United States government would never think to ask for an apology from another country for poking fun at our president. Again--it is a cultural difference, not a matter of who's right and who's wrong.

People from different cultures may express themselves in different ways--some are more indirect, some are more blunt. Some may take offense where none was intended. Some may not realize that their bluntness is offensive. I think we need to keep the lines of communication open, even when we disagree. Calling for threads to be closed without good reason (i.e. TOS violation) will not help anyone. It immediately puts up a wall preventing further communication. As I said before, a forum is for discussion and debate.

It's interesting and educational to read the variety of opinions expressed in this thread. That's what a forum is supposed to be-- a place for discussing and debating. A forum is not a question-and-answer session; it is real people sharing their thoughts and opinions from their own perspectives. Sometimes debates become heated, and for the most part I think that's OK. It's good to be passionate about your beliefs. If we all agreed about everything, this would be an awfully dull message board!

In the past, I have seen posters try and close down discussions when they felt too many people were expressing opinions that they did not agree with. In some cases the moderators have closed down discussions, and sometimes I think they did so to appease those who were offended by the posts they didn't agree with. The TOS is clear on what is acceptable and what is not, and for people to want to close a thread for any other reason is just plain wrong.

We all perceive things from our own cultural standpoint. For example, last fall, in an episode of "Desperate Housewives," a joke was made about Filipino doctors which led to the Philippine government asking for an apology from ABC. My guess is that most Filipinos thought that was an appropriate response to a perceived slur. But from an American perspective, it was one joke in a show with many jokes, and would have been soon forgotten if not for the outcry which ensued. People worldwide make jokes about George Bush, and for the most part, Americans accept this, since we value freedom of speech. The United States government would never think to ask for an apology from another country for poking fun at our president. Again--it is a cultural difference, not a matter of who's right and who's wrong.

People from different cultures may express themselves in different ways--some are more indirect, some are more blunt. Some may take offense where none was intended. Some may not realize that their bluntness is offensive. I think we need to keep the lines of communication open, even when we disagree. Calling for threads to be closed without good reason (i.e. TOS violation) will not help anyone. It immediately puts up a wall preventing further communication. As I said before, a forum is for discussion and debate.

When a set of posters pass negative comments against all the nurses from a particular country and malign the nation's entire nursing education system then I really don't see how it could lead to a positive discussion or debate. I have seen lot of posts on ths forum where all foreign nurses are grouped together into a single entity and negatively characterised. There is no point in debating a prejudiced mindset.

With reference to the example you provided, I believe you are comparing 2 totally dissimilar situations. In the case of the ABC sitcom, an unsolicited disparaging comment was made against all Filipino doctors. If it was a joke then it was in bad taste. Criticism of an individual based on his / her actions may or may not be fair but prejudiced generalization of a group of people or an entire nation is definitely wrong.

I have been a member of this forum for about 2 years now and from my experience I can definitely say that this forum has become hostile towards foreign nurses. This thread is proof enough of how most of us feel. The foreign nurses on this forum are from various countries and all the ones who are complaining on this thread do not belong to a single country or culture so the argument that its our culture which makes us more sensitive to 'blunt' comments does not hold water either.

I know that the moderators or administrators can't review each and every post but I guess it maybe possible for them to see that the threads remain true to the intent of the OP and that the threads are not hijacked by certain posters even if the moderator agrees with what they are saying.

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
hhmm personally i find this statement offensive..I dont know with other filipinos..But for the sake of giving an example,let's try this..

when i went to recent vacation in philippines ... i found out that not only is every other citizen studying to be a nurse....all the bumper sticker in jeepneys, tricycles , cabs say "My wife is a nurse" or "BSN" stickies everywhere....as i said everybody is a second courser from doctors, bank tellers, dentists, etc. There are a lot of Come and Go bootleg nursing schools that opened and closed..nursing students not only pay cash under the table /buy gifts/snacks/invite family party events not only to instructors to complete school requirements but also pay the OR /labor and delivery room nurses who promises surgical patients to students who comes up with SERIOUS CASH ( a bit like casino ) be provided with a 'PATIENT" FIRST or suffer the risk to be disqualified from semester because of the stiff competition between the regular 4 year students vs the second courser.

.where else of a country can you find that?...

The post you cited is definitely an example of unfair stereotyping and generalizations. It's probably exaggerated and can be viewed as demeaning from a Filipino nurse's point of view. It also doesn't help further the cause of Filipino nurses who wish to gain respect as qualified nurses in the global workforce. Realize that this was written by a fellow Filipino who has been in the US for a long time. I'm just speculating that the fellow who wrote it was just being funny and was playing the "older brother" role in our culture who talks down to youngsters (and that means you young nurses over there). As a former foreign nurse from the Philippines who is now in the US, I will gladly apologize if anyone feels slighted by my comments here.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Well, maybe this the very reason why someone has made a public thread about it. Don't you think? If people (I am using a general term) keeps telling them publicly there aren't anything wrong then that just proves even more their point and more the reason for such a public thread such as this.

There's a reason why people resort to this.

All that is understood and has been acknowledged. None of us have said that it wasn't a problem here. I'm sorry if you think our hand isn't heavy enough in how we are handling it.

It's understood that people are having problems both with Americans butting in and being disrespectful and moderators, we're not denying it, except to say that it doesn't always fall under Terms of Service violations and that we have an Admin Help Desk that's confidential if you have moderator/administrator complaints.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
The post you cited is definitely an example of unfair stereotyping and generalizations. It's probably exaggerated and can be viewed as demeaning from a Filipino nurse's point of view. It also doesn't help further the cause of Filipino nurses who wish to gain respect as qualified nurses in the global workforce. Realize that this was written by a fellow Filipino who has been in the US for a long time. I'm just speculating that the fellow who wrote it was just being funny and was playing the "older brother" role in our culture who talks down to youngsters (and that means you young nurses over there). As a former foreign nurse from the Philippines who is now in the US, I will gladly apologize if anyone feels slighted by my comments here.

No need to apologize, you handled it perfectly. While the post you quoted doesn't have any TOS violations, you told the person exactly how it feels, and you did so respectfully without flaming back!

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

point a:

the problem maybe is the way they put their thoughts into words - people may perceive or receive the message in a different tone or meaning.

point b:

the other problem i see is that some posters won't stop unless you take their side and acknowledge it.

these points are universal across the entire bulletin board and have been a long term communication issue since the advent of the written word! what members have expressed in this thread is similar that members have made about posters in our politics forum...and prior to that nursing union forum. the admin team continually looks at how the bb is being run, mood/concerns of bb members in reported posts and for issues not brought to our attention. brian looks at how admin/ mod team members are performing their job and we adjust the tos to issues we've run across over the 10 years of bb existence. all of this goes on behind the scenes to help improve our site and make it a welcoming place.

quickest way to get thread issue addressed is bring it to our attention via alert or admin help desk. as i tell my staff: if copiers been broke since 8 am when you came in, why am i hearing about it at 3:30 pm during busiest part of our homecare referral day? significant issues need addressing immediately, instead of allowing to simmer.

trying to get copier repairman our at end of business day is only going to delay problem, not solve it. your early report is just as important as my call to repairman ---and i empower them: here's the # so you can make the call next time!

we are listening and our ear is open 24/7 @ admin help desk ---link at bottom every page under need help section.

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