To ask or not to ask: Approach manager about a possible poor reference?

[kimbalotz]

Hello everyone, I have a question, but here is a quick synopsis of my situation.

I recently applied for a transfer in my hospital to the CTICU. It required me to enter a Fellowship program offered by the hospital. I currently work in the O.R., and my long term goal is to work in critical care, as an ANP. In the O.R., it is a dead-end for me professionally, and I need to move on to an ICU for professional growth.

Anyway, I applied to the fellowship, interviewed very well, and was whisked through three interviews very quickly. The manager of the unit I would be working in told me the spot was mine, and she couldn't wait for me to join the team. She told the recruiter this immediately.

The recruiter then called and told me the position was mine, and she was finalizing my transfer paperwork. She woukd call me in a day or so with the "formal" offer once this was done. I had assumed she had gotten a reference from my current manager in e O.R., and all was signed sealed and delivered.

A few days had passed and I didn't hear from the recruiter, so I called. My primary concern was that the fellowship were to commence soon, and I wanted to give my unit ample notice before I transferred. It was approaching two weeks till the start date- already cutting it real close. Mind you, I had begun the interview process for this transfer in early January, and it was now early March.

Finally, after me leaving two messages for the recruiter, she called---with the horrifying news of my NOT getting the position. Well after I was able to speak, I asked the recruiter what happened. She had told me thte position was mine, pending finalization of transfer paperwork. All she said was "sorry, they are nit interested in moving forward at this time". When I asked who, or what, or why, all she did was repeat this statement, nothing further. I was devastated. She gave me no answers as to why in just 48 hours, everything changed.

So I followed up with her with a call, kindly asking if there was any info she could give me as to why I was turned down, especially after the interviews went so well, and the unit manager wanted me on board. It was not an issue of my it being quAlified, because new grads are put into the fellowship. I explained that my long term goal was critical care, and I need to know if I can pursue these goals here in the hospital or if my chances are forever destroyed. Again, it is my future at stake.

All she said was for me to speak to my manager, hence my thinking they threw me under the bus somehow. Now, I have had No disciplinary actions, or had any trouble in my position...that I am aware of.

I was recently offered an exceptional position at a hospital with excellent salary and other perks. Not to mention invaluable experience in the emergency room, with opportunity to advance go critical care, if I wish to. I will be taking this job.

I will be handing in my letter of resignation Monday. Now, do I ask my manager IF they were indeed asked for a reference by recruitment, and if so, was my reference poor? I figure there is no other reason I was nit offered this position. And, I need to know whY happened. Recruitment said I should ask my manager why I was not offered the transfer, so I think I should. I need to know if they gave a bad reference, and if so, why.

Can anyone giver me feedback as to how to do so tactfully? I am definitely leaving this position in pursuit of this better

opportunity.

Thank you all.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Managers blocking transfers is the lowest trick in the book. Used to happen all the time, can't believe it is still going on. Plain and simple, manager doesn't want to lose staff by giving you up. Once she made that crystal clear to the new manager....that's all she wrote. New manager won't fight for the transfer. She doesn't want to deal with the backlash and/or be labeled a poacher by her peers.

I guarantee you that's what happened . It is unconscionable.

You can't guarantee it. you don't really know. None of us can really say we know what happened - we were not there.

This always amazes me, that people draw conclusions without any proof.

[DedHedRN]

I agree with the previous poster, have someone call the NM pretending to be interested in hiring you, and see what she says. There are company's that you can pay to do this for you. When I was working with the unemployment agency they stressed to always do this so you are not caught off guard by a bad reference.

[Mrs.Rollins, ASN, RN]

This type of thing happens all the time in my facility, unfortunately. We had a rash of nurses a few years ago who wanted to transfer, were completely blocked by their managers, left for another system for positions in their desired change-of-specialty, and eventually came back to our hospital to work in the units they wanted to transfer into. For more much more money.

I've never understood the thought processes of managers and administration. How on earth does it make financial sense to encourage nurses to leave the organization after you've invested so much time and money into them, only to turn around and hire them back later? Wouldn't it be smarter for hospitals to encourage retention through better raises, benefits, and measures to increase employee satisfaction? But, I digress...logic is and never has been a pertinent point when it comes to nursing in the U.S.

[Chin up]

This type of thing happens all the time in my facility, unfortunately. We had a rash of nurses a few years ago who wanted to transfer, were completely blocked by their managers, left for another system for positions in their desired change-of-specialty, and eventually came back to our hospital to work in the units they wanted to transfer into. For more much more money.

I've never understood the thought processes of managers and administration. How on earth does it make financial sense to encourage nurses to leave the organization after you've invested so much time and money into them, only to turn around and hire them back later? Wouldn't it be smarter for hospitals to encourage retention through better raises, benefits, and measures to increase employee satisfaction? But, I digress...logic is and never has been a pertinent point when it comes to nursing in the U.S.

I agree with you. A good manager wants to see you improve yourself, not hold you back. One of their functions is to mentor. A good mentor is thrilled and happy to see all their effort come to fruition and holds you accountable to pay it forward. But maybe that is a lost art...I feel so old.

[rnmi2004]

Congrats on your new position!

I would suggest you do approach your manager as tactfully as possible about the reference. Your manager may not give you a straight answer -- but watch her body language, reaction to you bringing it up, etc. Even without saying so, you may get an idea of what she said.

If your manager is squirrely enough to give you a bad reference because she feels it is in her best interest, she may end up giving you a bad reference in the future because you managed to find another position anyway. It would be in your best interest for you to get an idea as to whether or not you can use her as a reference moving on.

With all the nurses looking for work these days, your manager should know that it shouldn't be too difficult to resolve her staffing issues -- legitimately.

[Tina, RN]

Wow, this makes me really nervous. Right now, I am happy with my per diem position at a hospital. But, once my kids are older and in school full time, I was planning to move on to something full time in CM.

How common is this, where a NM will give a poor reference in order to keep an employee??

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

Hmm..Just go to your manager and say...I was offered this position in CTICU...everything was flying colors and going great..now I am no longer offered the position..They deferred me to talk to you as to why I am no longer 'fit' for CTICU.

Cut right to it. This is about you and your career, so you have the right to know and they should lay it all out on the table. Just don't go in there with a confrontational attitude. Just explain the along those lines as i said above.

EXACTLY. You are spot on.

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

Managers blocking transfers is the lowest trick in the book. Used to happen all the time, can't believe it is still going on. Plain and simple, manager doesn't want to lose staff by giving you up. Once she made that crystal clear to the new manager....that's all she wrote. New manager won't fight for the transfer. She doesn't want to deal with the backlash and/or be labeled a poacher by her peers.

I guarantee you that's what happened . It is unconscionable.

I had forgotten about this. You bring up a very valid point here. New managers can be seen as poachers by other managers, and you are right...it is a dirty trick.

[SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN]

how common is this, where a nm will give a poor reference in order to keep an employee??

it depends on the facility. my current facility is not this way... on the other hand, i worked in a facility that this happened more often then not. in fact, the dons and nms were all in agreement with each other and acted the same way. therefore, transfers by nurses and techs to other floors were rare!!! so much so, many nurses quit (even moved away) to gain work experience in another facility prior to reapplying to the position he/she could not transfer to initially. however, even this was not a guarantee!!!

hr alerted the nurse's former manager to give the former manager first dibs at the nurse upon return. never mind the fact that the nurse did not apply for his/her former specialty or floor!!! how crazy does this sound??? it gets worse.

in fact, i know of a few cases where hr informed the nurse applicant that he/she is not qualified to work on any other floor except for the floor he/she left because his/her former manager put a great sum of money in his/her training and he/she will need to return to that floor to work for at least 6 months (this is a joke because no one transfers after 6 months without being a relative of someone) before he/she can work on a different floor. i am one of the nurses to leave that facility for a specialty, but i will not return.

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

How long have you worked in the OR?

Why did you accept that type position when you desire to have critical care experience and become APN?

OR nurses are a very valuable staff due to the extensive training required to work in that dept-- cannot just hire temp from nursesRus to fill in. Many facilities have signed contracts that you in return for training you must spend XYZ amount of time in unit. Since unit is short staffed already, department would not be willing to release you at THIS time.

You really need to gently discuss with your Mgr your transfer being blocked and desire for professional growth to APN role for long term goals. Mgr then be aware the OR not in your future --and not count on you for long term staffing.

They may ask you to hang in for another 3 months until next person hired and oriented or release you immediately to work elsewhere in facility rather than leaving another health system.

Placing my Mgrs hat on:

Lost 2 new grads after 6-9 months as they desired get that golden hospital experience + 6 clerks to auth department ---getting tired over "everyone taking my great staff and me be one to hire and train" leaving me repeatedly short staffed.

[Batman25]

Managers blocking transfers is the lowest trick in the book. Used to happen all the time, can't believe it is still going on. Plain and simple, manager doesn't want to lose staff by giving you up. Once she made that crystal clear to the new manager....that's all she wrote. New manager won't fight for the transfer. She doesn't want to deal with the backlash and/or be labeled a poacher by her peers.

I guarantee you that's what happened . It is unconscionable.

That's my guess as to what happened here as well. And now both departments are losing out on a great nurse because she has taken a job elsewhere and I don't blame her for doing so. Sad it came to this as this nurse deserved better.

I would be honest and polite when speaking to your manager. Let her know what was told to you and give her a chance to respond. If she admits to blocking you let her know that you are leaving and by not letting you follow your dreams both departments now lost out. Perhaps if she sees the error of her ways she will handle it differently for the next nurse.

[Batman25]

Placing my Mgrs hat on:

Lost 2 new grads after 6-9 months as they desired get that golden hospital experience + 6 clerks to auth department ---getting tired over "everyone taking my great staff and me be one to hire and train" leaving me repeatedly short staffed.

Did they leave for another facility or transfer within? We have a policy in place that you need to stay in your position for one year before you can transfer to another department. It is 15 months for new grads. The latter is a recent change and it's clear this is an issue especially with new grads. I can understand your dismay.