To ask or not to ask: Approach manager about a possible poor reference?

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Hello everyone, I have a question, but here is a quick synopsis of my situation.

I recently applied for a transfer in my hospital to the CTICU. It required me to enter a Fellowship program offered by the hospital. I currently work in the O.R., and my long term goal is to work in critical care, as an ANP. In the O.R., it is a dead-end for me professionally, and I need to move on to an ICU for professional growth.

Anyway, I applied to the fellowship, interviewed very well, and was whisked through three interviews very quickly. The manager of the unit I would be working in told me the spot was mine, and she couldn't wait for me to join the team. She told the recruiter this immediately.

The recruiter then called and told me the position was mine, and she was finalizing my transfer paperwork. She woukd call me in a day or so with the "formal" offer once this was done. I had assumed she had gotten a reference from my current manager in e O.R., and all was signed sealed and delivered.

A few days had passed and I didn't hear from the recruiter, so I called. My primary concern was that the fellowship were to commence soon, and I wanted to give my unit ample notice before I transferred. It was approaching two weeks till the start date- already cutting it real close. Mind you, I had begun the interview process for this transfer in early January, and it was now early March.

Finally, after me leaving two messages for the recruiter, she called---with the horrifying news of my NOT getting the position. Well after I was able to speak, I asked the recruiter what happened. She had told me thte position was mine, pending finalization of transfer paperwork. All she said was "sorry, they are nit interested in moving forward at this time". When I asked who, or what, or why, all she did was repeat this statement, nothing further. I was devastated. She gave me no answers as to why in just 48 hours, everything changed.

So I followed up with her with a call, kindly asking if there was any info she could give me as to why I was turned down, especially after the interviews went so well, and the unit manager wanted me on board. It was not an issue of my it being quAlified, because new grads are put into the fellowship. I explained that my long term goal was critical care, and I need to know if I can pursue these goals here in the hospital or if my chances are forever destroyed. Again, it is my future at stake.

All she said was for me to speak to my manager, hence my thinking they threw me under the bus somehow. Now, I have had No disciplinary actions, or had any trouble in my position...that I am aware of.

I was recently offered an exceptional position at a hospital with excellent salary and other perks. Not to mention invaluable experience in the emergency room, with opportunity to advance go critical care, if I wish to. I will be taking this job.

I will be handing in my letter of resignation Monday. Now, do I ask my manager IF they were indeed asked for a reference by recruitment, and if so, was my reference poor? I figure there is no other reason I was nit offered this position. And, I need to know whY happened. Recruitment said I should ask my manager why I was not offered the transfer, so I think I should. I need to know if they gave a bad reference, and if so, why.

Can anyone giver me feedback as to how to do so tactfully? I am definitely leaving this position in pursuit of this better

opportunity.

Thank you all.

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.
did they leave for another facility or transfer within? we have a policy in place that you need to stay in your position for one year before you can transfer to another department. it is 15 months for new grads. the latter is a recent change and it's clear this is an issue especially with new grads. i can understand your dismay.

1 rn transfered to hospital within system; other rn went hospital outside system. 6 clerks moved to dept just down the hall from me and visit several times a week as i have the best coffee. :D

both new grad rn's have talked with me about "how hard hosptial nursing is...why didn't you prepare me" :)

reassured them they are going through new grad jitters, pointed them to first year after nursing licensure forum and that i wouldn't have hired them in the first place if i didn't think they would succeed as a nurse.

few nurses/staff think of impact their leaving has on a unit. it can be brutal when several hand in resignations at the same time due to marriage, pregnancy, returning to school, hate hospital nursing, only want part time... serious illness/death in family. takes average 6 wks-2months to hire these days.

add in hr assistant leaving ....got perfect hiring storm.

Thank you ALL for your very wise and conscientious replies. I have really been thrown by this whole ordeal. My initial plan was to STAY within the healthcare system (it is a very large system, largest in the Northeast.) and become a vested employee, while furthering and advancing myself up the "clinical ladder". I took the O.R. position (as one of you asked why--) because at the time of graduating from school, I was pregnant, and the O.R. was the only day position offered, and a good fit for my growing family. I was happy to have the experience, and have really come into my own in the O.R. I have great realtionships with all the staff (well..most, ha ha). But seriously, all the doctors, even the ones notoriously hard to deal with, get along with me. I am there for my patient for their entire perioperative experience, holding their hand up until they fall asleep. I work hard, and try to have a smile for my co-workers and a funny joke, to help make the day fun. I love people.

My goal has ALWAYS been critical care/focusing on Cardiac medicine. This is my dream. For me to continue in the O.R. where I have no chance to advance, nor reach my goal, does everyone a disservice...mostly me.

I have gone to school late in life to get my BSN. Family issues and other stuff prevented me from doing this earlier. I am VERY proud of my accomplishments. I completed my BSN with honors, having had one baby during school, and being pregnant with my second...blah blah blah. In other words, I am not afraid of challenges or hard work.

Being a nurse is so rewarding for me. I get to render care to my patients that I wish my family members had when they were sick. It is my calling.

Where I work is short=staffed. No question. They are ALWAYS short of nurses (though they hardly hire new RN's...not sure why). So, anyone leaving will be a devastating loss. Thus, I feel strongly as most of you all do, that my NM perhaps "sabotaged" me in some way, to keep me there, and prevent more of a shortage. I still can't believe she did this...because I am not sure how you give a poor reference if the employee is doing so well.

The recruiter stood firmly in telling me to "speak to my manager". She did not give me ANY direct reason for the retraction of my hire at the LAST MINUTE. I was speechless, and crying...asking for ANY information as to why I was being denied the transfer. The unit manager of the CTICU was flabbergasted when I told her what happened..and she is begging me to apply again for the next fellowship. She wants me on her team. The recruiter told her no reasons...only that it "Wasnt' working out with me". The only question is, do I have a shot in HELL of getting in after all of this?!?!?!?!

When I ask my NM TOMORROW (yup...doing it tomorrow), IF she was asked for a reference, I am hopeful she will be forthright. Since I am in good standing, I am so curious to see what her reasons were for giving me the pooor reference. I will be direct, not confrontational, but I will be persistent in knowing what happened...more for personal growth, is how I will put it.

I will let her know I am looking to expand my career options, and advance. Period. The new opportunity is wonderful, in a cardiac hospital. I will be able to explore new horizons, and continue my journey to being a greater RN. Can't wait for the challenges that lie ahead!

True, my current job will be losing a great nurse, and I say that with confidence. So many RN"s there are just so apathetic, it's very sad. Very catty environment, and the NM's HATE their job. They bad mouth their own nurses in open air. The are bitter and leave you out to dry when it gets rough. Terrible place...only good if your skin is 3 feet thick. (luckily, mine is). Perhaps the NM is just burned and bitter, and doesn't want to see someone else move up. Who the heck knows.

ANyway, I thank you all for your advice, and will keep you posted tomorrow...after I do the deed.

Wish me LUCK!!!!

You can't guarantee it. you don't really know. None of us can really say we know what happened - we were not there.

This always amazes me, that people draw conclusions without any proof.

Of course not, it's a figure of speech. That's all. :)

Specializes in Med surg, LTC, Administration.
How long have you worked in the OR?

Why did you accept that type position when you desire to have critical care experience and become APN?

OR nurses are a very valuable staff due to the extensive training required to work in that dept-- cannot just hire temp from nursesRus to fill in. Many facilities have signed contracts that you in return for training you must spend XYZ amount of time in unit. Since unit is short staffed already, department would not be willing to release you at THIS time.

You really need to gently discuss with your Mgr your transfer being blocked and desire for professional growth to APN role for long term goals. Mgr then be aware the OR not in your future --and not count on you for long term staffing.

They may ask you to hang in for another 3 months until next person hired and oriented or release you immediately to work elsewhere in facility rather than leaving another health system.

Placing my Mgrs hat on:

Lost 2 new grads after 6-9 months as they desired get that golden hospital experience + 6 clerks to auth department ---getting tired over "everyone taking my great staff and me be one to hire and train" leaving me repeatedly short staffed. ;)

Great opposing view. Something to thing about. Thanks!

Specializes in Med surg, LTC, Administration.
That's my guess as to what happened here as well. And now both departments are losing out on a great nurse because she has taken a job elsewhere and I don't blame her for doing so. Sad it came to this as this nurse deserved better.

I would be honest and polite when speaking to your manager. Let her know what was told to you and give her a chance to respond. If she admits to blocking you let her know that you are leaving and by not letting you follow your dreams both departments now lost out. Perhaps if she sees the error of her ways she will handle it differently for the next nurse.

But an even better view. Thought it through and if her manager is blocking her, she is wrong. Now the facility is out a nurse completely and I don't blame her. She is doing the right thing. Peace!

It's possible she didn't give you a bad reference. Many facilites will allow a manager to turn down the request of a nurse requesting a tranfer. They are given the right to say no if they don't want the nurse to leave. My feeling is that is what transpired here. It can unfortunately cost the employee but many others prob just stay and wait it out or never get the real story. Not a fan od this policy. Let us know what transpires. Good luck.

Well tomorrow is "the day", and I will be tactful and polite, but I'll try to get to the bottom of it. If indeed she didn't give me a bad reference, but just didn't want me to transfer, it still sucks...plain and simple. It is unfair to hold someone back from advancing because of staffing issues, but I am SURE it happens all the time. Thanks for the well-wishes...I will re post tomorrow!

Thank you ALL for your very wise and conscientious replies. I have really been thrown by this whole ordeal. My initial plan was to STAY within the healthcare system (it is a very large system, largest in the Northeast.) and become a vested employee, while furthering and advancing myself up the "clinical ladder". I took the O.R. position (as one of you asked why--) because at the time of graduating from school, I was pregnant, and the O.R. was the only day position offered, and a good fit for my growing family. I was happy to have the experience, and have really come into my own in the O.R. I have great realtionships with all the staff (well..most, ha ha). But seriously, all the doctors, even the ones notoriously hard to deal with, get along with me. I am there for my patient for their entire perioperative experience, holding their hand up until they fall asleep. I work hard, and try to have a smile for my co-workers and a funny joke, to help make the day fun. I love people.

My goal has ALWAYS been critical care/focusing on Cardiac medicine. This is my dream. For me to continue in the O.R. where I have no chance to advance, nor reach my goal, does everyone a disservice...mostly me.

I have gone to school late in life to get my BSN. Family issues and other stuff prevented me from doing this earlier. I am VERY proud of my accomplishments. I completed my BSN with honors, having had one baby during school, and being pregnant with my second...blah blah blah. In other words, I am not afraid of challenges or hard work.

Being a nurse is so rewarding for me. I get to render care to my patients that I wish my family members had when they were sick. It is my calling.

Where I work is short=staffed. No question. They are ALWAYS short of nurses (though they hardly hire new RN's...not sure why). So, anyone leaving will be a devastating loss. Thus, I feel strongly as most of you all do, that my NM perhaps "sabotaged" me in some way, to keep me there, and prevent more of a shortage. I still can't believe she did this...because I am not sure how you give a poor reference if the employee is doing so well.

The recruiter stood firmly in telling me to "speak to my manager". She did not give me ANY direct reason for the retraction of my hire at the LAST MINUTE. I was speechless, and crying...asking for ANY information as to why I was being denied the transfer. The unit manager of the CTICU was flabbergasted when I told her what happened..and she is begging me to apply again for the next fellowship. She wants me on her team. The recruiter told her no reasons...only that it "Wasnt' working out with me". The only question is, do I have a shot in HELL of getting in after all of this?!?!?!?!

When I ask my NM TOMORROW (yup...doing it tomorrow), IF she was asked for a reference, I am hopeful she will be forthright. Since I am in good standing, I am so curious to see what her reasons were for giving me the pooor reference. I will be direct, not confrontational, but I will be persistent in knowing what happened...more for personal growth, is how I will put it.

I will let her know I am looking to expand my career options, and advance. Period. The new opportunity is wonderful, in a cardiac hospital. I will be able to explore new horizons, and continue my journey to being a greater RN. Can't wait for the challenges that lie ahead!

True, my current job will be losing a great nurse, and I say that with confidence. So many RN"s there are just so apathetic, it's very sad. Very catty environment, and the NM's HATE their job. They bad mouth their own nurses in open air. The are bitter and leave you out to dry when it gets rough. Terrible place...only good if your skin is 3 feet thick. (luckily, mine is). Perhaps the NM is just burned and bitter, and doesn't want to see someone else move up. Who the heck knows.

ANyway, I thank you all for your advice, and will keep you posted tomorrow...after I do the deed.

Wish me LUCK!!!!

Hold on. the hiring manager was flabbergasted? :eek: So you're believing that she had nothing to do with retraction of the offer to hire you. Why can't she hire you anyway? If she wants you, why can't she have you?

Also, why must you re-apply to a future fellowship? Why can't she call you and see if you're still interested ? but this is a secondary question.

The real question is why she doesn't get this straightened out with HR and/or your OR manager. If the OR wants you for another few weeks and you stay there until time for the fellowship, what's wrong with that? That would give the OR time to hire another nurse.

Something is rotten in Denmark. If the Hiring Mgr didn't cancel the offer, HR did. And that's not how it works, as far as I know. The manager decides who to hire, not HR.

It's possible she didn't give you a bad reference. Many facilites will allow a manager to turn down the request of a nurse requesting a tranfer. They are given the right to say no if they don't want the nurse to leave. My feeling is that is what transpired here. It can unfortunately cost the employee but many others prob just stay and wait it out or never get the real story. Not a fan od this policy. Let us know what transpires. Good luck.

Where I have worked, the policy was that a manager can't hold you longer than 3 months. I guess that's not the same everywhere.

I wish the OP had talked with her OR manager concurrently with applying for her desired position.

Specializes in Cath Lab/ ICU.

How'd it go OP? What did your manager say??

Hi everyone, I didn't give my notice today, I was soooo sick! Woke up with a terrible sore throat and no voice! I hope it's not a sign! So, Wednesday....to be continued....!

Specializes in Cath Lab/ ICU.

Don't give a month. Leaves her all kinds of time to screw you. Give the standard 2weeks...

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