To ask or not to ask: Approach manager about a possible poor reference?

[kimbalotz]

Hello everyone, I have a question, but here is a quick synopsis of my situation.

I recently applied for a transfer in my hospital to the CTICU. It required me to enter a Fellowship program offered by the hospital. I currently work in the O.R., and my long term goal is to work in critical care, as an ANP. In the O.R., it is a dead-end for me professionally, and I need to move on to an ICU for professional growth.

Anyway, I applied to the fellowship, interviewed very well, and was whisked through three interviews very quickly. The manager of the unit I would be working in told me the spot was mine, and she couldn't wait for me to join the team. She told the recruiter this immediately.

The recruiter then called and told me the position was mine, and she was finalizing my transfer paperwork. She woukd call me in a day or so with the "formal" offer once this was done. I had assumed she had gotten a reference from my current manager in e O.R., and all was signed sealed and delivered.

A few days had passed and I didn't hear from the recruiter, so I called. My primary concern was that the fellowship were to commence soon, and I wanted to give my unit ample notice before I transferred. It was approaching two weeks till the start date- already cutting it real close. Mind you, I had begun the interview process for this transfer in early January, and it was now early March.

Finally, after me leaving two messages for the recruiter, she called---with the horrifying news of my NOT getting the position. Well after I was able to speak, I asked the recruiter what happened. She had told me thte position was mine, pending finalization of transfer paperwork. All she said was "sorry, they are nit interested in moving forward at this time". When I asked who, or what, or why, all she did was repeat this statement, nothing further. I was devastated. She gave me no answers as to why in just 48 hours, everything changed.

So I followed up with her with a call, kindly asking if there was any info she could give me as to why I was turned down, especially after the interviews went so well, and the unit manager wanted me on board. It was not an issue of my it being quAlified, because new grads are put into the fellowship. I explained that my long term goal was critical care, and I need to know if I can pursue these goals here in the hospital or if my chances are forever destroyed. Again, it is my future at stake.

All she said was for me to speak to my manager, hence my thinking they threw me under the bus somehow. Now, I have had No disciplinary actions, or had any trouble in my position...that I am aware of.

I was recently offered an exceptional position at a hospital with excellent salary and other perks. Not to mention invaluable experience in the emergency room, with opportunity to advance go critical care, if I wish to. I will be taking this job.

I will be handing in my letter of resignation Monday. Now, do I ask my manager IF they were indeed asked for a reference by recruitment, and if so, was my reference poor? I figure there is no other reason I was nit offered this position. And, I need to know whY happened. Recruitment said I should ask my manager why I was not offered the transfer, so I think I should. I need to know if they gave a bad reference, and if so, why.

Can anyone giver me feedback as to how to do so tactfully? I am definitely leaving this position in pursuit of this better

opportunity.

Thank you all.

[NCRNMDM, ASN, RN]

Thank you, and I can totally understand, I would have felt just like you do. Do keep us all updated, I'm sure everyone who has read the post is interested to see what type of reasoning your manager will give you when you come right out and ask her about it. This should definitely be interesting.

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

As I see it, there are a couple of scenarios that could have happened:

1. Your current supervisor was caught unaware that you were seeking another position and immediately black-balled you in order to make you stay on your current unit.

2. You do have some drawbacks that your manager shared with the recruiter, and you have not been made aware of them.

Either way, it seems as if your manager does not want you to move forward in your career path. Have you had any hint of this? Have you ever been pulled into her office to chat with her?

I will share a personal experience with you. I was made aware that I should be expected to be approached by my NM to ask me to fill a management position. In order to do this, it would mean taking me out of a staff nurse position. My direct supervisor did not want me to leave the staff nurse position, because he relied heavily on me to do day to day tasks so that he could see to other things. My supervisor told the NM that I was not interested in the management position. I had no idea that he had relayed this information to my NM. After weeks of not hearing anything, I directly asked my NM why she had not approached me. She told me that my supervisor stated that I was not interested, and let me tell you, I was mad as fire. I had to ask a co-worker to please remove the large shank out of my backside while I tried to calm down.

The crux of this story is that you never know why managers give you a poor reference. Many times (if not most times) it is because they are addressing their own agendas. From what you are stating, you have never been in any kind of disciplinary action. This leads me to believe that you manager has a vested interest in keeping you on the unit, and will play dirty to keep you there.

My advice to you is to is to have an unemotional and factual discussion with your NM as to what was said during her interview with the recruiter. If she is unwilling to divulge that information, the go directly to HR. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW. Before you do this, have your ducks in a row by having print outs of your time and attendance as proof that you are reliable, and have your last printed evaluation as further proof that you are up to snuff in your abilities.

[Ruthfarmer]

I recommend that you take the new position and don't look back. Let it go. Accept that the situation is what it is and that it is over and done with. Chances are that your manager did indeed sabotage you. There are a number of reason why people do that. Perhaps she didn't want to deal with having to find someone to replace you. Perhaps she was jealous. Perhaps she feels stuck in her job and thinks everybody else ought to be stuck in their job. Who knows.

Trying to talk to the manager about it is most likely a waste of your time and your breath. She's not likely to own up to sabotaging you. If she did own up to sabotaging your opportunity, then it will only make for an awkward situation, where you may not feel like being very professional.

Seize this position with "an excellent salary and other perks." Hand your resignation in with lots of zeal and enthusiasm. Be extremely gracious, and thank the manager profusely for all the experience you gained working there. If she is aware that you were seeking the fellowship you did not get, and if you are inclined, make a comment to the effect of: You know, not getting that fellowship really is one of the best things that could have happened to me. The position I have accepted is SOOOOOO much better.

If she didn't sabotage you, she will be happy for you. If she did sabotage you, then she will likely be chagrined to know that she was instrumental in orchestrating this new super duper position for you!

You are drawing more energy to this situation than is necessary. You are allowing it to cause you to doubt yourself. If there were some significant concerns about your performance, then they should have been brought to your attention before now. If you focus on it long enough you will allow it to define you. Let go of the situation. I promise you that you will feel much better for it. If the manager sabotaged you, you can be sure that some cosmic karma comeuppance will come the manager's way when it's needed the most. Embrace your new opportunity and don't give it another thought.

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

Ever listen to AC/DC? Check out "Dirty deed done dirt cheap..."

OK, as a totally off-topic rely, I have to share. I have a hearing deficit, and I always thought that the line was "dirty knees in your dungarees." Yep. Totally missed that one. I thought for the longest time that the band was singing about landscaping jobs.

[kimbalotz]

Canes,

Thank you. I agree, I feel that in my heart, the Nzm followed her agenda and the needs of the O.R., and therefore, threw me under the bus. I have never been approached nor admonished fir any issues. They are desperately short staffed and any nurse caving will have a great impact. However, do I really have a "right" to know what was said? If she did sabotage me, what do I do then? I am definitely leaving for this new opportunity, as it will be an exceptional one. And, my getting into critical care at my current site basically requires me to go through this exact process again. Obviously that may be futile at this point, so I must move on. Not to mention, I can't be in a dead end job!

I will ask my NM what happened. If she says nothing, then I will really be confused...

[Scrubby]

Isn't there some sort of organisation that does reference checks and then tell you what was said? It might be worth pursuing so you know whether or not it's worth having your NM as a reference.

[CCL RN, RN]

.....

[SnowShoeRN]

You absolutely have a right to know! Her decision affected your future! If you'd like, you can always phrase it in a away that shows you're dedicated to self-improvement. I would suggest innocent first, "Do you know why I didn't get this position? Because HR recommended I speak to you." (though not phrased quite that confrontationally) then moving to something like "Am I missing something? I always had good evaluations, etc. Could you help me to understand your decision not to recommend me? Any suggestions as to how I could improve my performance would be greatly appreciated."

It is up to her, however, to a) Talk to you at all about it and b) tell the truth.

If she doesn't want to level with you, you'll have to just move on and accept you can't have the kind of closure you want.

I had something similar happen to me once. I never was able to track down my old manager to ask her about it even though HR suggested she had something to do with my not getting a position I really wanted. Best of luck to you and congrats on the new position! :)

[navyguyhm3]

Hmm..Just go to your manager and say...I was offered this position in CTICU...everything was flying colors and going great..now I am no longer offered the position..They deferred me to talk to you as to why I am no longer 'fit' for CTICU.

Cut right to it. This is about you and your career, so you have the right to know and they should lay it all out on the table. Just don't go in there with a confrontational attitude. Just explain the along those lines as i said above.

[carolmaccas66, BSN, RN]

If there is ONE thing I have learned re jobs - NOTHING is certain until all the paperwork has been signed and delivered, and you are standing in your new ward/facility with your uniform on, getting handover. Even then, they don't have to keep you here (in Aust) after your 3 month probation.

Nothing in this life is certain, I reckon.

Just go and ask the person concerned outright 'Did you give me a bad reference and if so, why?' I have always believed in confronting people and situations outright - otherwise, your mind will not be quiet, especially at night. There is no 'tactful' way to ask re a situation like this - just come right out with it.

Make sure you have the other job first though and after you have spoken to the relevant party/parties re this so-called bad reference, just chalk it up to one bad experience and move on. There is nothing to look back at in life, just keep looking ahead and moving forward, and try to be happy :)

ADD: it only takes ONE bad reference, or someone holding a grudge, for you to get a bad name. That is why you need to know, to try and find out who the culprit is and confronting them will make them uncomfortable or densive - then you know it's them. And you will feel better, trust me.

[Old.Timer]

Managers blocking transfers is the lowest trick in the book. Used to happen all the time, can't believe it is still going on. Plain and simple, manager doesn't want to lose staff by giving you up. Once she made that crystal clear to the new manager....that's all she wrote. New manager won't fight for the transfer. She doesn't want to deal with the backlash and/or be labeled a poacher by her peers.

I guarantee you that's what happened . It is unconscionable.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Maybe a friend of the HR or Manager came along?

Budget changed, position elimination?

Might not have been the OR Mgr at all.

Do NOT burn your bridges. Just turn in a professionally worded resignation, move on, soar to the heights in your new job.

When you calm down, you might sort of confusedly tell your OR Mgr that HR said to ask her why you didn't get the transfer and just ask her if she can help you understand. Say that you need to know if you can count on her for a good reference in the future, you are confused because she has never counseled you or disciplined you for anything, you want to be the best nurse you can possibly be and would appreciate her help in helping you understand what happened, something like that. Do not be argumentive, accusatory, or confrontational.

But you do need to know, I would think, for your own peace of mind and clarification and you would appreciate it so much if she could help you understand.

If you didn't tell your OR boss about the transfer before HR or the hiring Mgr talked with her, assuming they even did that, I could see that she wouldn't like to be blindsided. But you really do not know exactly what happened and might never know. If you did the foregoing, do apologize and say that you understand her upset, you were wrong to not mention it but you didn't know quite what to do, whether you'd get the transfer or not and didn't want to upset or anger her, etc.

You could also speak with the Director of HR or the VP to whom this Director reports. This is a terrible way for HR to behave. And, you might want to speak with the hiring Mgr and DON. Be unfailingly poised, polite, and self-controlled. Your goal is to learn the truth and to become the best nurse you can become, so go in as a learner. Do not burn your bridges. You just might want or need to be employed there again - or somewhere else where these people might be in the future.

Best of luck in your new digs. I think it will be for the best, even if you never know why.