This is sick

barefootlady, ADN, RN · Feb 24, 2005

While changing channels on my TV this evening, I happened onto Jerry Falwell, the minister from Virginia that founded Liverty University. He was preaching on how babies, born with Downe's Syndrome and other serious conditions are placed in a private room, not fed, changed, or care for until the baby dies. :devil: While I have read and heard tales of this when I was in school, I have never been a party to this, nor have I seen this in a modern facility of today. Anyone else out there have an opinion, a story, a factual account to tell? I so not follow this particular minister and I did not listen to all he had to say, but he was presenting this as happening everyday in our hospitals by staff(nurses???) He went to far with me and I intend to write a personal letter to him to let him know this is illegal, immoral, and something I do not think a professional nurse would be a party to today. :angryfire

tmiller027 · Feb 24, 2005

Yeah, as a Christian, I find many of these televanglists nothing short of embarassing. I've heard that story before.

Just like the one I heard a friend tell me that she heard if you're an organ donor and get into an accident and in critical condition, if the hospitaal sees your a donor, they'll let you die so they can harvest your organs.

I think a lot of this is urban legend. What doctor or nurse in their right minds would risk their liscense for stuff like this? :rolleyes:

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 24, 2005

While changing channels on my TV this evening, I happened onto Jerry Falwell, the minister from Virginia that founded Liverty University. He was preaching on how babies, born with Downe's Syndrome and other serious conditions are placed in a private room, not fed, changed, or care for until the baby dies. While I have read and heard tales of this when I was in school, I have never been a party to this, nor have I seen this in a modern facility of today. Anyone else out there have an opinion, a story, a factual account to tell? I so not follow this particular minister and I did not listen to all he had to say, but he was presenting this as happening everyday in our hospitals by staff(nurses???) He went to far with me and I intend to write a personal letter to him to let him know this is illegal, immoral, and something I do not think a professional nurse would be a party to today. :angryfire

I would not believe a word out of Falwell's mouth if he were to tell me the sky is blue on a sunny day.

Mimi2RN, ASN, RN · Feb 24, 2005

I have been told by a long-since-retired nurse that the premies and other babies who were not expected to survive would be put in a back corner of the nursery, and if they survived the night, then they would be treated.

In those days, a 34 weeker (like Patrick Kennedy) would die of hyaline membrane disease. Babies did not get IV's. I think fluids were given using clysis. Abx were always given IM, if they were given at all. OG tubes had to be inserted by an MD.

This was in the 60's. My, how things have changed!

I think Rev. Falwell is a little bit behind the times. Maybe he needs a tour of a NICU.

allnurses Guide · Feb 24, 2005

I have been told by a long-since-retired nurse that the premies and other babies who were not expected to survive would be put in a back corner of the nursery, and if they survived the night, then they would be treated.
In those days, a 34 weeker (like Patrick Kennedy) would die of hyaline membrane disease. Babies did not get IV's. I think fluids were given using clysis. Abx were always given IM, if they were given at all. OG tubes had to be inserted by an MD.
This was in the 60's. My, how things have changed!
I think Rev. Falwell is a little bit behind the times. Maybe he needs a tour of a NICU.

I had heard that also. I'm wondering if he was speaking of China . . .I do remember hearing a Chinese Physican speak one time on letting babies with Down's or other deformities die as Mimi described.

Infanticide is nothing new really.

steph

NurseFirst · Feb 24, 2005

I have been told by a long-since-retired nurse that the premies and other babies who were not expected to survive would be put in a back corner of the nursery, and if they survived the night, then they would be treated.
In those days, a 34 weeker (like Patrick Kennedy) would die of hyaline membrane disease. Babies did not get IV's. I think fluids were given using clysis. Abx were always given IM, if they were given at all. OG tubes had to be inserted by an MD.
This was in the 60's. My, how things have changed!
I think Rev. Falwell is a little bit behind the times. Maybe he needs a tour of a NICU.

But have they changed for the better? There is actually a well-regarded medical ethicist who recommends that parents have the option to kill their child until they are 3 mos old!!!!

NurseFirst

fergus51 · Feb 24, 2005

What a bunch of BS from the Rev. Fallwell. Take it from someone who works there: We care for babies to the extreme! No one is euthanizing babies where I work.

Mommy2Katiebaby · Feb 24, 2005

When I worked hospice we got a lot of orders that said "Titrate to comfort." I'm sure we titrated any number of people right off the face of the planet, but we never KILLED anyone.

apaisRN, RN, CRNA · Feb 24, 2005

What is clysis?

I have been told that in China, unwanted girls are eauthanized with injections of hydrogen peroxide. The person telling me was a resident who had recently adopted a Chinese girl, so I tend to think he got it from a credible source. I do believe that in places like India abortions are performed on wanted babies if they are found on ultrasound to be female. I am 100% pro-choice but this is unimaginable to me.

katy_kenemy · Feb 24, 2005

I don't like to see people suffer, but I also don't like to see doctors playing God either.

yep, it has gone on in silence from what i have heard. working in critical care, i find it highly disturbing that people suffer on and on and on when they are just dragging out the inevitable, so i suppose i fundamentally disagree with you. like when someone riddled with cancer and both breasts removed and skinny as a rail and constantly vomiting and towards the end choking up own fecal matter.... on TPN feedings and too weak to even take a sip of water... and a colostomy and foley... i saw this go on and on.....

and then the death, oxygen down to 70 and the family threatening (in my view) to intubate.

wait til you have seen more before forming an opinion is my advice.

also, in some of these cases doctors are not "playing God" but fulfilling pt and family wishes, and anyway, God does not kill people. he just lets nature work. doctors and nurses just are here to alleviate some of the suffering nature brings with it--- so i guess you could say we "play God" all the time anyway.

apaisRN, RN, CRNA · Feb 24, 2005

Here is the story. Apparently the patient was sedated but it's still a bizarre story. Why would the physician have done this? The patient was going to die shortly anyway, probably hurried along by morphine.

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Physician Reprimanded by Medical Practice Board; Attorney General Declines to File Criminal Charges

Contact: Bill Sorrell, Attorney General

July 2, 2003 - Attorney General William Sorrell announced that Dr. Lloyd L. Thompson, a family practice physician in Lyndon, earlier today accepted a public reprimand and conditions on his medical license by the State of Vermont Medical Practice Board. The Board's action stems from Thompson's treatment of an elderly and terminally ill patient in August of 2002. In a stipulation filed with the Board early this afternoon, Dr. Thompson admitted that it was wrong for him to have administered the drug Norcuron after he removed a ventilator tube from his patient. Norcuron is a drug that causes muscle paralysis. It is typically used only when inserting a ventilator tube in a patient who is experiencing respiratory failure.

Dr. Thompson had been the treating physician for the eighty-five year old patient for many years, including her final stay at the Northeastern Vermont Regional Hospital last August. The patient had been hospitalized for declining health due to pulmonary problems. It is not disputed that during the course of this final hospitalization the patient was terminally ill and approaching the end of life. Two years earlier the patient had signed a written declaration requesting that no extraordinary measures be taken to preserve her life in the event of terminal illness and that she receive treatment designed only for her care and comfort.

During the patient's hospitalization she suffered respiratory failure and was placed on a ventilator. Over a period of days, several unsuccessful attempts were made to "wean" her off the ventilator but each time she experienced noticeable distress and was placed back on the ventilator.

On the final day in the hospital, Dr. Thompson gave the patient progressive doses of pain medication and a sedative (morphine and Versed) and then removed the ventilator tube. He then administered a final dose of morphine and Versed and 10 mg of Norcuron. At the time of the administration of Norcuron, the patient was comfortable, sedate and not in any apparent distress. Thompson stated that his intent was to sedate the patient, withdraw life support and allow death to follow. The patient died within minutes of the administration of Norcuron. An investigation by the Medical Practice Board and a criminal investigation by the Attorney General's Office commenced immediately after a notice of the incident had been forwarded to the Board by the Northeastern Regional Hospital.

Dr. Thompson, who fully cooperated with the Medical Board investigation, voluntarily accepted the Board's reprimand. He also agreed to the continuation of conditions on his medical license that will allow him to continue to practice medicine. By agreement he has been monitored by the Medical Executive Committee of the Northeastern Vermont Regional Hospital since October 2002 and will continue to be so monitored until at least July of 2004.

Given the actions of the Medical Practice Board and the specific facts of this case, the Attorney General has concluded that the interests of justice would not be served by commencing a criminal prosecution against Dr. Thompson. Among the reasons cited for this decision were the strong wishes of the family that no criminal charges be filed. Sorrell also cited the difficulties in meeting the standard of proof of "beyond a reasonable doubt," particularly on the issue of the actual cause of the patient's death. The causation issue was complicated by the fact that the patient was so close to death and had been given several substantial doses of sedation just prior to the administration of Norcuron.

Sorrell did emphasize, however, that the use of paralytic drugs, such as Norcuron, in this type of situation is clearly inappropriate. His office consulted numerous medical experts, both from within and outside the state, in the course of its investigation. "We share the view of Dr. Robert Orr, the Director of Medical Ethics at the Fletcher Allen Health Center, that the use of Norcuron for this purpose is contrary to acceptable medical practice," said Sorrell. "We would not hesitate, especially now that the Medical Practice Board has made its position clear on this subject, to pursue all appropriate criminal and civil remedies should this sort of event repeat itself in the future," he added. At the same time, the Attorney General underscored the fact that both the medical and law enforcement communities recognize that palliative care, including competent and aggressive pain management, is an appropriate part of end-of-life care for terminally ill Vermonters. "Consistent with the patient's wishes at the end of life, the focus should be on proper care and comfort until natural death occurs," said Sorrell. (The Medical Board's Stipulation and Order will be posted on the Attorney General's web site at http://www.atg.state.vt.us/ ).

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Feb 24, 2005

What is clysis?

Clysis (oh boy, am I dating myself here) was a method of rehydration by which fluids were put into the subcutaneous tissues instead of the veins. It looks similar to an intravenous IV setup.