I'm watching an OLD episode of Chicago Hope on Discovery Health channel. This episode, a doctor went to court to try and have a morphine drip increased for a patient in a vegitative state up to a fatal dose.
What I found disturbing was one...at one point, the doctor ordered a nurse to adminster it, and she refused. He then proceded to scream and yell at her. Her nurse supervisor told her "Don't you see what you've done? This is done in silence all the time, but now its on the record!"
The doctors said the same thing, how euthanaisa goes on every day in the U.S. with a "wink" between Dr's and families. Has anyone ever heard of this? I'm almost halfway through an ADN program, have worked a year as a CNA and know lots of doctors and nurses and have never heard of this. I just found it highly disturbing. I don't like to see people suffer, but I also don't like to see doctors playing God either.
I'm watching an OLD episode of Chicago Hope on Discovery Health channel. This episode, a doctor went to court to try and have a morphine drip increased for a patient in a vegitative state up to a fatal dose.
What I found disturbing was one...at one point, the doctor ordered a nurse to adminster it, and she refused. He then proceded to scream and yell at her. Her nurse supervisor told her "Don't you see what you've done? This is done in silence all the time, but now its on the record!"
The doctors said the same thing, how euthanaisa goes on every day in the U.S. with a "wink" between Dr's and families. Has anyone ever heard of this? I'm almost halfway through an ADN program, have worked a year as a CNA and know lots of doctors and nurses and have never heard of this. I just found it highly disturbing. I don't like to see people suffer, but I also don't like to see doctors playing God either.
In England doctors tend to employ the concept of double effect inasmuchas the reason for admin of narcotics is to control pain but they are very aware that the dosage required will increase to a point where it will be fatal this would not apply to vegetative state as the beleif is that these people are unaware and as such do not have the capacity to suffer there existence is considered to be tolerable as they are unable to process any stimuli
Specializes in MS/Med/OB/Peds/Psych/HH/Hospice/ER/ICU.
I have never seen this in over 42 years of being a nurse, and in 4 states. What I have seen is slow increasing of Morphine to cover a patient's increasing pain that only an ongoing,horrible cancer can create. The amounts of morphine some patients are taking would be fatal to a person just being put on morphine initially. But, morphine does have the ability to be able to be increased with almost no cap. In my many experiences with a painful, cancer death, it sounds to me like your father's death really had nothing to do with the dosage of morphine given. It was just his time to answer God's call. God Bless him.
I agree with fergus51 and plumrn. I was told to give morphine to a dying patient, in significant pain and discomfort. I was warned by the doctor that it was possible she might die as I titrated for pain relief and not to be upset. I was a newby nurse at the time. I was very careful and she was comfortable. She died on the next shift.
We do the same in oncology and hospice, if a patient is in pain or has difficulty breathing and they are terminal and a DNR, we give them MS04, this dialates the pulmonary vessels and helps them breathe easier, helps relax them and helps their pain. You are right, sometimes the window is narrow. Families and the patient are aware of this and want the pain medication. I've been in oncology for at least 10 years and this is done, but not aggressively, everything is tried first,surgery, chemo, radiation etc. before a doctor says, there is nothing else we can do and a disscussion w/ the patient and the family takes place. Then the patient is placed on hospice,
and goes home to die or sometimes they stay in the hospital.
I have seen the benefits esp. on Respiratory, where those who came off the vent, because they could not live without it, were given the Morphine drip to alleviate their anxiety and difficulty breathing. Sometimes, it eases them to the point where it may take longer than you thought for them to die. COPDers who do not choose to go on the vent are also helped tremendously this way. Not a bad way to go.
Carlos Casteneda
55 Posts
In England doctors tend to employ the concept of double effect inasmuchas the reason for admin of narcotics is to control pain but they are very aware that the dosage required will increase to a point where it will be fatal this would not apply to vegetative state as the beleif is that these people are unaware and as such do not have the capacity to suffer there existence is considered to be tolerable as they are unable to process any stimuli