Since I started working in health care as a CNA nearly six years ago, I've had many experiences that have left me wondering how some people get into the positions they hold. I was not a youngin when I started this, I was nearly 20 years on from earning a bachelor's degree in political science and had spent more than a decade raising children at home before I began my health care career. I've worked enough to know that promoting people into leadership who shouldn't be there is not unique to health care by any means.
Lately I've a had a few interactions with a RN coworker that leave me again thinking, "How in the world does this person outrank me?"
#1 He's collecting an induced sputum sample in clinic. (I work in a public health clinic dedicated to TB testing, detection, treatment, and prevention.) He comes to me with the sputum sample tube, thankfully in a sealed specimen bag, holds it up, and says, "She vomited a little food when she coughed. Can we still use this sample?"
#2 He comes to me and says that the biohazard trash near the sputum collection rooms is full, and then asks what he should do. He's worked in this building longer than I have and knows exactly where the biohazard room is.
#3 During a case study presentation in a clinical staff meeting, in which the patient has been described as being 50 years old and 17 weeks pregnant via IVF, he asked what IVF stands for.
I just.......really?! This guy has, when you count RN prereqs I haven't taken yet, two more years of education than I do. He makes at least ten dollars more an hour than I do based on that fact. It's getting to the point where it takes all I have not to be extremely rude when he asks me these stupid questions (yes, there is such a thing).
Share your best "I can't believe s/he outranks me" stories!
Yes, yes... you're a cretin, an imbecile. You're clearly an embarrassment to all all things nursing.
(Of course I'm kidding here, but this being the internet and all with a complete lack of facial expressions and intonation, perhaps it's best I clarify :) )
I'm impressed if you managed to answer your coworker's questions without giving away how you really feel about them/him. I say this completely snark-free. When you described his questions in your OP I perceived a sense of superiority towards him due to the fact that you see him as lacking knowledge, and that's usually really difficult to hide from others in real life. People can often intuitively sense the judgment/that mental eye roll. It's a good thing if you genuinely managed to conceal your feelings, because you don't want to discourage coworkers from asking questions. Feeling that you can ask questions when you're unsure of something, instead of just winging it, is an important part of a healthy safety culture.
I'm not trying to attack you, and I think the same can be said about most other posters in this thread. I don't agree with the basic premise of your OP, but that's not the same thing as attacking you. I disagree with the thoughts you voiced, but I don't know you. Listen, I realize that this thread didn't take the direction that you likely hoped, but I'll try to explain the reason I reacted to it the way I did.
I think that you were nitpicking with the things you seem to think are major knowledge deficits. I don't think that they are a big deal. I think that some of your subsequent posts have had a rather haughty tone. I understand that may be because you are acting defensively because you feel attacked, but communication will break down when everyone is oozing snark. Apart from not feeling that your coworker's ignorance was very serious, I also have a problem with the entire concept of coming up with stories that describe how much better I am than someone who happens to have more formal education than I do. That just strikes me as a odd, wholly unappealing mix of chip on the shoulder and smug superiority. It simply turns me off and likely affects how I react.
I've experienced situations where I was a bit surprised that for example a physician didn't know something that I though was pretty basic, but I wouldn't automatically jump to questioning his or her education or the breadth and depth of their knowledge. I am always very aware of all the knowledge that they likely have, that I don't. I just view those situations as an opportunity to share whatever knowledge I happened to be in possession of. I certainly have learned a lot from physicians, and sometimes they learn from me. It's beneficial for all parties. It certainly benefits our patients.
I would expect that many nurses would and that doesn't in my opinion say anything about their professional capabilities. It certainly doesn't imply that they are less knowledegable than the nurse who happens to know them. The ones I mentioned are just ten out of thousands of abbreviations & acronyms in healthcare and far from the most vital or impressive knowledge we can and need to have. Frankly, I avoid them as far as possible when I chart since I think they are often a source of confusion/unclear communication. I try to use only the ones that are pretty much 100% accepted and known across all different specialties.
Very well put. I certainly recognize my own response for what it was. Immediate, and a bit unnecessary, retaliation coming from personal defensiveness. Because if it weren't for haughtiness in later responses, I would have replied quite differently. I would have approached it more in a funny/silly good natured poking fun kind of way, where we can all laugh at ourselves for what we can look back on as "silly" questions, or those duh moments. But, it didn't come off as good-natured as OP may have intended it to be.
Specializes in Tele, Interventional Pain Management, OR.
Since I started working in health care as a CNA nearly six years ago, I've had many experiences that have left me wondering how some people get into the positions they hold. I was not a youngin when I started this, I was nearly 20 years on from earning a bachelor's degree in political science and had spent more than a decade raising children at home before I began my health care career. I've worked enough to know that promoting people into leadership who shouldn't be there is not unique to health care by any means.
Lately I've a had a few interactions with a RN coworker that leave me again thinking, "How in the world does this person outrank me?"
#1 He's collecting an induced sputum sample in clinic. (I work in a public health clinic dedicated to TB testing, detection, treatment, and prevention.) He comes to me with the sputum sample tube, thankfully in a sealed specimen bag, holds it up, and says, "She vomited a little food when she coughed. Can we still use this sample?"
#2 He comes to me and says that the biohazard trash near the sputum collection rooms is full, and then asks what he should do. He's worked in this building longer than I have and knows exactly where the biohazard room is.
#3 During a case study presentation in a clinical staff meeting, in which the patient has been described as being 50 years old and 17 weeks pregnant via IVF, he asked what IVF stands for.
I just.......really?! This guy has, when you count RN prereqs I haven't taken yet, two more years of education than I do. He makes at least ten dollars more an hour than I do based on that fact. It's getting to the point where it takes all I have not to be extremely rude when he asks me these stupid questions (yes, there is such a thing).
Share your best "I can't believe s/he outranks me" stories!
A coworker's RN license versus your CNA (or whatever) certification is not an example of "promoting people into leadership who shouldn't be there." New RNs, whether new to the profession or to the practice area, often don't know the nitty-gritty "tech-y" aspects of their setting. I certainly have not, in either of the jobs I've held since graduating from nursing school and passing NCLEX to become an RN. And that's okay. RNs are primarily valued for their assessment skills, which are beyond the scope of any CNA.
Teamwork is vitally important in every healthcare setting. So what if *you* think a new coworker's questions are stupid? So what if I think the same? Help your coworker with those super-basic facts, such as those cited in your OP, so s/he can be a contributing coworker sooner. Otherwise, you're just kind of an *******.
Specializes in Medical-Surgical/Float Pool/Stepdown.
Just a few points I'd like to add...
Your coworker may just genuinely trust you and this is why they come to you for a second look - if so then how you feel about him is quite unfortunate...
Your coworker may have good emotional intelligence and senses your annoyance with him and he's trying to break the ice/frostiness with whatever conversation and teamwork interactions than he can think of...
Your coworker knows the answers and also knows it irritates you but is not intimidated. I can't say I wouldn't do this to a coworker that was being rude to me either.
I found an enlightening article on the proper way to collect a sputum sample. They go as far as recommending the sample be obtained before breakfast. If that's not possible, waiting until at least an hour after is advisable. So, obviously food is considered a contaminant.
Also curious why your bio says '2 years experience' when you joined 12 months ago.....
I see your point, Might not have created an account immediately
I'll be a student next semester but created an account so I can ask a question here or there, or try to contribute to whatever conversation my input may be useful
In all seriousness, will people ask in a few years when I'm just starting out "haven't you been an RN for years? Your account was made in 2017" Asking becuase I don't want to represent myself inadvertently as something I'm not...
I found an enlightening article on the proper way to collect a sputum sample. They go as far as recommending the sample be obtained before breakfast. If that's not possible, waiting until at least an hour after is advisable. So, obviously food is considered a contaminant.
The article actually compared cultures from different sites, stomach being one. The induced sputums were the most sensitive specimens but maybe one could argue that if a sputum sample contaminated with vomit is all youre going to get, it may be worth still trying to culture.
I would also wonder if they could still do the smear. I imagine that would be less affected by contaminants (I would think afb look different than a chunk of bagel lol). That's what's often used to determine isolation, so I would have definitely still called the lab.
This thread didn't go the direction you wanted did it? So to maybe get on track of sharing examples I have a couple. We have a scheduler that thinks she's everybody's boss. Has her nose in nursing business that she knows literally nothing about, calls the weekend and after hours supervisors out for on on-the-fly scheduling decisions that were made to cover last minute call offs despite the fact that making those types of scheduling decisions is part of the nursing supervisor's job and not hers. Oh, and while she calls out the supervisor for performing the job she doesn't supply the after hours or weekend staff with her cell phone number so she can be reached. I'm thinking if she wants to make ALL decisions she should be called no matter the hour or day to make those decisions.
Second example is kind of opposite what you are complaining about. We have a particularly bossy CNA that has no problem ordering the RN around. Thing is, she's been a CNA for 30 years and knows her stuff, so the RN usually does what she says. She's never steered us wrong yet and has in fact caught some things that the nurse would've otherwise missed. So nurses, especially those working LTC listen to your CNA's. With so many residents there's no way the nurse can adequately assess everything every day. Those good, observant and vocal CNA's can literally be lifesavers.
Specializes in New Critical care NP, Critical care, Med-surg, LTC.
There are janitors out there that are geniuses (Good Will Hunting anyone?), and I've worked with MDs and PhDs that could easily get lost in their own neighborhood. My husband has joked for years that if I went back to school and new things I learned would push out the little common sense I have left. People are people and sometimes smart people do dumb things and dumb people do smart things. That's why it takes all of us together to make the world work. No need to point out when you're in which camp, because at some point we're all short on knowledge about something. Brain capacity itself doesn't impress me much, it's how people use that knowledge to benefit the world that drives my respect, or lack thereof.
Specializes in Med-Surg/Neuro/Oncology floor nursing..
I have definitely had some duh moments. But to the OP one thing someone taught me back in my teens..its unbecoming to think you are the smartest person in the room. I don't remember every little thing that was taught to me in school..based on a couple of questions he asked you, you were outraged and decided he wasn't as smart as you. That's pretty presumptious.
Ive had my supervisor ask me why you couldn't mix two certain meds in one syringe(forgot which ones) but I went and told her and didn't think any less of her. We all have off days and I was thinking IV fluids when I saw IVF too!
My own "duh" moment: being in the trauma bay after an ED thoracotomy and ROSC. I can literally SEE a beating heart. I saw some wackiness on the monitor and asked if we still had pulses. One of the docs reminded me that I could just look at the heart. D'oh! Not used to having that immediate visual confirmation of a pulse.
CardiacDork, MSN, RN
577 Posts
Is he younger by any chance?