This is a seasonal respiratory disease. In all likelihood, it will kill 60,000 people.
We deal with this sort of thing annually with influenza, it kills around 60,000 people a year. While that is a lot of people, we don't do anything draconian. There needs to be some kind of balance between disease prevention, and quality of life. We make these choices all the time to create balance. We could ban junk food, or lower (and enforce) speed limits and save 100,000 lives easily.
I have seen some variation of that logic posted here, and it is bewildering. At first I doubted that some posters were actually nurses- it takes a certain amount of critical thinking ability and understanding of math to pass the NCLEX. But, it looks like some are. Though I haven't noticed any of them posting their experience in heavy Covid regions.
This is so wrong, it should not need explanation, but I will try.
For starters, comparing two things because of similar mortality to each other is a specious argument. You could just as accurately say that, best case scenario, Covid 19 will kill as many Americans in one short season as we lost during the Viet Nam war. Oddly, nobody advocating for reducing restrictions makes that comparison.
More important- Comparing Influenza to Covid 19, or putting them next to each other for "perspective" is like comparing a light drizzle to a tsunami based on my personal experience with them. I can go out in a light drizzle for an hour in a windbreaker, and only get a little wet. I can wear $800 worth of goretex for 5 minutes in a tsunami, and I will also get a little wet.
If somebody gets shot with a 9mm while wearing a body armor and only sustained a bruise, they don't then think a 9mm is pretty much like a bb gun.
Plenty of analogies- point is that if we somehow manage to keep the death rates similar, it will have been at the expense of the most massive mitigation effort in human history.
If you want to compare numbers, go with 60,000 vs 2,000,000. Notice the extra zeros. 2,000,000 is the absolute low end of the mortality estimate of what would have happened had we treated these two respiratory viruses as similar. I use this particular number because it was used by Trump and reported by Fox. Seems like most experts think it is a bit low, but I think it is a fine number for comparison.
When nurses here in any way compare, conflate, juxtapose, relate or whatever these two illnesses in any way other than the respiratory component, I do wonder if they actually believe it, or if it is simply for shock value. Either way, I wish it would act like an eject button when they post it. I don't mean that they should be ejected from this forum. I mean like in a cartoon, that when they hit "submit topic", they go sailing through the air.
What motivates people to mirepresent the dangers of this virus?
I think there are a few things-
Genuine ignorance: People who truly believe that this is similar to the flu, and there is a bunch of lamestream media hype. There are millions of Americans (most?) who restrict their information intake to a very narrow spectrum. This occurs on both ends and in the middle. They really believe the narrative about deep state and media conspiracies. They actually believe that the scientific narrative is part of a plot to overturn an election.
Feigned ignorance: Educated people who rely on experts in all consequential aspect of their lives whn it affedths their own well being. When it comes to their own well being, they want expert medical, legal, business etc. advice. These folks are encouraging people to stand side my side with no protection protesting, while they stay secure in their compounds. For them, this creates ratings or garners votes.
Neither: Folks who have a hard time knowing how to discern accurate information. It is a bit overwhelming hearing so many different things. But when adopting one set of information bankrupts them, and a different set allows them to work and conduct a life they are familiar and comfortable with, they lean that way.
I think a better question on this forum is what motivates an RN to misrepresent the dangers of this virus?
I think a better question on this forum is what motivates an RN to misrepresent the dangers of this virus?
I dont think any RN has misrepresented the danger of the virus and I dont think you need to be dismissive of other RNs and/or their critical thinking abilities just bc they do not align with yours. Some RNs are able to critically think and see the big picture which includes the economy and how that will negatively affect the health and wellness of many many people. As far as the number of deaths go ~ 28,000- 29,000 of those are in New York and New Jersey alone. Maybe we should know why, poor planning from Cuomo, close proximity of people, alot in nursing homes etc all the above, it would be helpful to know. Either way, should parts of the country not affected keep an ongoing quarantine? MDs/researchers are now coming forward and saying they dont think so, I guess they must be using their critical thinking skills!
For those who need specific numbers. Here’s how it’s different. My hospital has 140 COVID patients currently admitted. 70 of them are on ventilators. And we aren’t even in a hotspot. This is unprecedented. Never have we ever had that many patients admitted at one time for the flu and rarely are they on a vent, certainly not 50% of them. For context we are just one of 7 large hospitals in my city. The math is not pretty.
As Heron said we have already neared the death rate for the entire flu season in just 2 months and it doesn’t appear to be stopping anytime soon.
Perhaps I'm displaying my ignorance, but if one cannot acquire immunity to this virus, how will a vaccine help?
We don't have a vaccine for the common cold because - I think - it mutates too often.
What am I missing here?
I think she means natural immunity but at this point nobody knows for sure. There is a good video posted by juniper222 on Emergents post about this. I forget the title but something that starts with Kern County...
I found it! Explains the immunity among other things very well.
Perhaps I'm displaying my ignorance, but if one cannot acquire immunity to this virus, how will a vaccine help?
We don't have a vaccine for the common cold because - I think - it mutates too often.
What am I missing here?
My understanding is that in the case of Covid-19 it is not known by experts how long immunity continues for once a person makes antibodies, so far in excess of 80% of the population would need to be vaccinated in order to provide herd immunity.
I dont think any RN has misrepresented the danger of the virus and I dont think you need to be dismissive of other RNs and/or their critical thinking abilities just bc they do not align with yours. Some RNs are able to critically think and see the big picture which includes the economy and how that will negatively affect the health and wellness of many many people. As far as the number of deaths go ~ 28,000- 29,000 of those are in New York and New Jersey alone. Maybe we should know why, poor planning from Cuomo, close proximity of people, alot in nursing homes etc all the above, it would be helpful to know. Either way, should parts of the country not affected keep an ongoing quarantine? MDs/researchers are now coming forward and saying they dont think so, I guess they must be using their critical thinking skills!
I am honestly having trouble understanding this reaction to my post. I am talking about the comparison to the flu, not the rate at which we should start normalizing. Or new normalizing.
But, because it keeps coming up- The white house has put out what seems to be a pretty sound framework about loosening restrictions where appropriate, and monitoring/testing to manage the pace.
I agree with you, and others here that we need to look at this logically. Many of our states are as big as european countries who are all setting their own policies.
I also happen to think my region should be opening faster- we are not near capacity, and the whole idea of lockdown wast to prevent overload.
But I don't argue that point based on the fallacy that this is like the flu. Even if both result in 60,000 deaths.
Here in Washington we are starting to loosen up a bit. Despite the initial drama of multiple deaths, we are doing fine and hospitals are actually in trouble because of low volumes.
The governor has opened up construction again, and opened up the outdoors, which is such a big part of our lives here. Most importantly they have removed the fishing ban.
Here in Washington we are starting to loosen up a bit. Despite the initial drama of multiple deaths, we are doing fine and hospitals are actually in trouble because of low volumes.
The governor has opened up construction again, and opened up the outdoors, which is such a big part of our lives here. Most importantly they have removed the fishing ban.
Great.
I support it.
Hopefully my rural state learns from it, one way or another.
I am not aware of anyone in this forum who has said "This is just like the flu." I compared the CFR at one point and made a speculation that the rates will be same but that is far from saying CV and the flu are the same thing. If you say that two houses are red it does not mean you said everything about them is identical. And there has been speculation that this may become a seasonal thing, but I have yet to see anyone here who said it will be a seasonal thing. Engaging in straw man tactics is divisive.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
From March 25 briefing. At about minute 2.30 Dr. Fauci speaks about the likelihood of a seasonal recurrence. There are few guarantees to be found in this pandemic.
I am not aware of anyone in this forum who has said "This is just like the flu." I compared the CFR at one point and made a speculation that the rates will be same but that is far from saying CV and the flu are the same thing. If you say that two houses are red it does not mean you said everything about them is identical. And there has been speculation that this may become a seasonal thing, but I have yet to see anyone here who said it will be a seasonal thing. Engaging in straw man tactics is divisive.
Thank you for your efforts in helping people understand the severity of this disease. Much of the general public conflates the flu and Covid.
As professionals, it is imperative that we help them understand the difference, so I appreciate your efforts.
Guest219794
2,453 Posts
I think there are a few things-
Genuine ignorance: People who truly believe that this is similar to the flu, and there is a bunch of lamestream media hype. There are millions of Americans (most?) who restrict their information intake to a very narrow spectrum. This occurs on both ends and in the middle. They really believe the narrative about deep state and media conspiracies. They actually believe that the scientific narrative is part of a plot to overturn an election.
Feigned ignorance: Educated people who rely on experts in all consequential aspect of their lives whn it affedths their own well being. When it comes to their own well being, they want expert medical, legal, business etc. advice. These folks are encouraging people to stand side my side with no protection protesting, while they stay secure in their compounds. For them, this creates ratings or garners votes.
Neither: Folks who have a hard time knowing how to discern accurate information. It is a bit overwhelming hearing so many different things. But when adopting one set of information bankrupts them, and a different set allows them to work and conduct a life they are familiar and comfortable with, they lean that way.
I think a better question on this forum is what motivates an RN to misrepresent the dangers of this virus?