Thieves! Stealing Supplies During COVID-19 Crisis

pixierose, BSN, RN · Mar 16, 2020

On 3/15/2020 at 4:51 PM, Jedrnurse said:
Civil it is.
Denying or ignoring words from Trump's own mouth can arguably meet the level of gaslighting. Please don't do it.

I’m going to run with this for a minute.

Trump MADE it political. He didn’t want to admit it was a problem here because it would look bad for him - the numbers of corona cases and the stock market. He’s still out there shooting his mouth off (and Fox News is an extension of him; see Trish Regan 3/9 - “Coronavirus Impeachment Scam!” ... the seasonal flu is more dangerous than the novel Coronavirus ... Pete Hegseth saying that members of the media want people to get infected so that it would hurt trump. I won’t even get into Hannity ...)

But I digress.

We (STILL) have a President saying one thing (“everything is under complete control”), and Fauci saying something different ... this was just this very morning, btw.

There WAS foresight - the pandemic unit was disbanded in 2018 by Trump’s administration. Dr. Borio stated, “The threat of pandemic flu is the number one health concern. Are we ready to respond? I fear the answer is no.”

SARS-CoVid 19 was identified in January 2019 and health officials in the US warned the Trump administration that it could be bad ... but it fell on deaf ears. It was all “under control.”

The US intelligence committee Worldwide Threat Assessment, back in January 2019, stated that the US was vulnerable to another flu pandemic. Their 2018 assessment- same.

That people say, “don’t make it political” or “health officials should’ve” are ignorant at best and dangerous at worst. Gaslighting at its finest. The buck stops (and starts) somewhere.

Maybe I’m tired. I’m most certainly stressed - I work in the ED, have an autoimmune disorder, am undergoing chemo for cancer and am disgusted, absolutely *disgusted* with the “stop politicizing!” posts. I can’t stop working ... but you can stop playing with my life.

I would prefer not to care what Trump says either. Unfortunately... he has a lot of say in this country.

KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN · Mar 16, 2020

If this epidemy doesn't cure, or at least mitigate, that stupid and shameless entitlement so many Americans feel nowadays, then I do not know what will.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html

That guy stated that hoarding and withdrawal of resources constitute "public service" and he is entitled to the opportunity to grab money like this.

**LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM** · Mar 16, 2020

On 3/16/2020 at 8:25 AM, pixierose said:
I’m going to run with this for a minute.
Trump MADE it political. He didn’t want to admit it was a problem here because it would look bad for him - the numbers of corona cases and the stock market. He’s still out there shooting his mouth off (and Fox News is an extension of him; see Trish Regan 3/9 - “Coronavirus Impeachment Scam!” ... the seasonal flu is more dangerous than the novel Coronavirus ... Pete Hegseth saying that members of the media want people to get infected so that it would hurt trump. I won’t even get into Hannity ...)
But I digress.
We (STILL) have a President saying one thing (“everything is under complete control”), and Fauci saying something different ... this was just this very morning, btw.
There WAS foresight - the pandemic unit was disbanded in 2018 by Trump’s administration. Dr. Borio stated, “The threat of pandemic flu is the number one health concern. Are we ready to respond? I fear the answer is no.”
SARS-CoVid 19 was identified in January 2019 and health officials in the US warned the Trump administration that it could be bad ... but it fell on deaf ears. It was all “under control.”
The US intelligence committee Worldwide Threat Assessment, back in January 2019, stated that the US was vulnerable to another flu pandemic. Their 2018 assessment- same.
That people say, “don’t make it political” or “health officials should’ve” are ignorant at best and dangerous at worst. Gaslighting at its finest. The buck stops (and starts) somewhere.
Maybe I’m tired. I’m most certainly stressed - I work in the ED, have an autoimmune disorder, am undergoing chemo for cancer and am disgusted, absolutely *disgusted* with the “stop politicizing!” posts. I can’t stop working ... but you can stop playing with my life.
I would prefer not to care what Trump says either. Unfortunately... he has a lot of say in this country.

Thank you for this. I was trying to find a way to come up with a coherent response to the utterly nonsensical fallacy of "this is not about politics," and just couldn't.

brownbook · Mar 16, 2020

Thank goodness due to our constitution and three branches of government our president does not really have that much power. (I don't thing Trump or his supporters understand this, (after four years how's building the wall and dismantling ACA going for him). Yes he's a stupid idiot, yes he says stupid things. It is sad he represent our country to the world.

Try to read unbiased "news" stories.

"There is a tool, Newsguard, a New York company, that employes experienced journalists and editors to review and rate news and information websites based on nine journalistic criteria that assess practice of credibility and transparency...based on factors including whether the site repeatedly publishes false content. It it gathers and presents information responsibly, it if regularly corrects or clarifies errors, it if clearly distinguishes between news and opinion, and it is it avoids deceptive headlines."

I don't work for nor own stock in Newsguard ?.

NurseBlaq · Mar 16, 2020

I can't stand a thief! ?

42pines · Mar 16, 2020

19 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:
I am glad they arrested the thieves! It seems to be common practice for admin and the police to not do anything in these types of circumstances (in my experience). Just disgusting what people will do. I wonder if they were panicking or planning to sell the supplies. (Not that I am excusing the behavior just curious)

Planning on selling the items. Thieves that are intelligent enough to know where the "goods" are, are smart enough to suspect that hospitals are not good places to visit these days....?

42pines · Mar 16, 2020

On 3/16/2020 at 8:25 AM, pixierose said:
Maybe I’m tired. I’m most certainly stressed - I work in the ED, have an autoimmune disorder, am undergoing chemo for cancer and am disgusted, absolutely *disgusted* with the “stop politicizing!” posts. I can’t stop working ... but you can stop playing with my life.

What really infuriates me is that the entire public health system in America is rabid with both misinformation and an utter LACK of information.

Take a look at this: (Map of coronavirus cases/deaths/recoveries/isolations in Hong Kong--up to date every day:

https://chp-dashboard.geodata.gov.hk/covid-19/en.html

WHY does American NOT have such a map? Such a map would be of immense value to everyone. "Hot spots" can be quickly identified allowing viewers to take appropriate action. If you see a dozen cases pop-up in your neighborhood, you're going to be far more careful than if you live in a small city of ~40,000 as I do, with no community infection and the nearest positive test is an hours drive away.

Such a map would let you, as an ED nurse, and your boss, identify just when you ought to run and hide. And for anyone who takes offense to "run and hide," consider that every case of infection that requires hospitalization that could be avoided, should be avoided.

Reality bites and the rules have changed--adapt or (for some) perish.

HomeBound · Mar 16, 2020

On 3/16/2020 at 11:58 AM, 42pines said:
Some advice: Give notice, isolate. Off the top of my head I'd guess that your risk of death exceeds 15%. That also means that your chance of needing hospitalization if infected is likely double that.
Your chance of becoming infected in your environment is (eventually IMO) 100%.
No, I'm not a Practitioner nor am I an epidemiologist but I am a realist.
What really infuriates me is that the entire public health system in America is rabid with both misinformation and an utter LACK of information.
Take a look at this: (Map of coronavirus cases/deaths/recoveries/isolations in Hong Kong--up to date every day:
https://chp-dashboard.geodata.gov.hk/covid-19/en.html
WHY does American NOT have such a map? Such a map would be of immense value to everyone. "Hot spots" can be quickly identified allowing viewers to take appropriate action. If you see a dozen cases pop-up in your neighborhood, you're going to be far more careful than if you live in a small city of ~40,000 as I do, with no community infection and the nearest positive test is an hours drive away.
Such a map would let you, as an ED nurse, and your boss, identify just when you ought to run and hide. And for anyone who takes offense to "run and hide," consider that every case of infection that requires hospitalization that could be avoided, should be avoided.
Reality bites and the rules have changed--adapt or (for some) perish.

Infection does not equal illness.

Period.

About the thieves. I see empoyees stealing every day. Even when this hysterical nonsense wasn't happening.

Watching co workers lift everything from gloves to bottles of purell and betadyne to iv setups and saline. I have even seen a few pocketing tamiflu and some antivirals. Because they aren't narcotics and our system at my hospital doesn't scan meds. unbelievably, we chart that we gave the meds on the honor system.

Masks and purell in the lobbies were disappeared weeks ago. I go to the store now and it's literally as if people have lost their minds.

Banning congregating over 50 people? I work in an 88 bed ER. do the math.

Why is it that no healthcare workers are dropping and being admitted to the ICU? We see them before we know what's wrong. hmmmmmmmmm.

A little critical thinking might go a long way here...

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/visualizing-history-pandemics

42pines · Mar 16, 2020

There is one single problem with the very, very pretty Infogram from zerohedge. That is: It is absurdly meaningless.

"Oh, look, down there, is that tiny red dot called the Coronavirus. Why, it is so small, not to worry..."

Oh, wait… history. Let me see: Yes, the inforgram is titled “History of Pandemics.” COVID-19 is NOT history, it’s NOW, do you, for one second think that the tiny red dot will stay tiny?

Take any one of those thorny, scary looking “things,” on that Inforgram and consider. EVERY one started as yes, a tiny dot.

Your comment, “infection does not create illness” is a bit odd, but I get your gist and agree. For most, becoming infected does not mean death. Here’s a good definition from thefreedictionary: “The invasion of bodily tissue by pathogenic microorganisms that proliferate, resulting in tissue injury that can progress to disease. You are correct, it does not say: “…that will lead to disease.” However, we’re talking about a response that I wrote to an immuno-compromised RN. I did not respond to an RN who is healthy.

Go to https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html and look at the “other locations.” We see an exponential graph. Today, “other cases” hit just about 100,000. “Other cases” have doubled over the past five days. Do the math. Should that continue the number 30 days (5 iterations) from now is about 3,200,000 cases. Don’t do the next 30 days, it’s too scary to think about.

Think about that. Sure, it may not happen—it didn’t during the H1N1 pandemic of 2010. Millions of deaths were predicted and a mere 100,000 to 400,00 died. That virus mutated to a more benign form and maybe, just maybe this will too…or just maybe warm weather will halt it.

Also, I did not say: “give notice,” today. However, I still adhere to my advice to pixierose, to isolate when “community spread” occurs. Each person must decide their own risk factors and risk tolerance. Therein lays on of the evils of this virus. A 20-year-old, healthy person might have a 1:200 risk of death while an 80-year-old person with COPD might have a 30% risk of dying. She is immuno-compromised, need I say more?

You wrote: “banning congregating over 50 people? I work in an 88 bed ER. do the math.” What can I say? Bans relate to concerts, public gatherings—not to hospitals! Was this some attempt at humor that I missed?

You wrote: “…why is it that no healthcare workers are dropping and being admitted to the ICU?

Here is the answer: Because on the pretty Inforgram, the COVID-19 is a tiny red dot. All epidemics/pandemics start as a tiny red dot. Theoretically they start as patient zero, a single case. Then they grow, eventually the curve flattens and eventually they end.

Here, read this from Business Insider and then tell me, do you still want to ask that question?

“Nearly 3,400 Chinese healthcare workers have gotten the coronavirus, and 13 have died”

See: https://www.businessinsider.com/healthcare-workers-getting-coronavirus-500-infected-2020-2

The correct answer to your question about “…why…” is because we’re at the beginning of an epidemic in America. China is at the “middle.” Do you think that America will escape a similar fate? Consider China’s response was fast and Draconian. America’s response was, for instance, let into America about 20,000 passengers each day for the past three weeks, from Incheon Airport in South Korea, a county where the infection was growing exponentially, without even checking for fever.

I do like your:

“A little critical thinking might go a long way here...”

I hope that my level of concern turns out to be radical and I sincerely hope that your level is the one that American RNs will experience.

HandsOffMySteth · Mar 16, 2020

On 3/16/2020 at 8:25 AM, pixierose said:
I’m going to run with this for a minute.
Trump MADE it political. He didn’t want to admit it was a problem here because it would look bad for him - the numbers of corona cases and the stock market. He’s still out there shooting his mouth off (and Fox News is an extension of him; see Trish Regan 3/9 - “Coronavirus Impeachment Scam!” ... the seasonal flu is more dangerous than the novel Coronavirus ... Pete Hegseth saying that members of the media want people to get infected so that it would hurt trump. I won’t even get into Hannity ...)
But I digress.
We (STILL) have a President saying one thing (“everything is under complete control”), and Fauci saying something different ... this was just this very morning, btw.
There WAS foresight - the pandemic unit was disbanded in 2018 by Trump’s administration. Dr. Borio stated, “The threat of pandemic flu is the number one health concern. Are we ready to respond? I fear the answer is no.”
SARS-CoVid 19 was identified in January 2019 and health officials in the US warned the Trump administration that it could be bad ... but it fell on deaf ears. It was all “under control.”
The US intelligence committee Worldwide Threat Assessment, back in January 2019, stated that the US was vulnerable to another flu pandemic. Their 2018 assessment- same.
That people say, “don’t make it political” or “health officials should’ve” are ignorant at best and dangerous at worst. Gaslighting at its finest. The buck stops (and starts) somewhere.
Maybe I’m tired. I’m most certainly stressed - I work in the ED, have an autoimmune disorder, am undergoing chemo for cancer and am disgusted, absolutely *disgusted* with the “stop politicizing!” posts. I can’t stop working ... but you can stop playing with my life.
I would prefer not to care what Trump says either. Unfortunately... he has a lot of say in this country.

Disbanding the NSC team may have had little impact on this. If you know something our top health officials don't know then by all means let us in. Is there a reason the CDC can't deal with those issues? Trump has a history of firing people who can't get the job done.

Once again, you show obvious political slant with your statements. However, to state it as fact when using biased sources is gaslighting by definition. That's why I put the Fox link, to show there is an opposing view that is also politicly biased. To accuse your political opponents of the very thing you are guilty of is nothing more than a stunt. We could sure use less bickering and more cooperation in the world. Critical thinking should prevail on these issues, not pandering to hysteria. Don't believe everything you read.

I am sorry to hear about your cancer. I can't imagine having to work the ED and going though chemo. Take care of yourself.

HandsOffMySteth · Mar 16, 2020

On 3/16/2020 at 2:55 PM, 42pines said:
“Nearly 3,400 Chinese healthcare workers have gotten the coronavirus, and 13 have died”
See: https://www.businessinsider.com/healthcare-workers-getting-coronavirus-500-infected-2020-2
The correct answer to your question about “…why…” is because we’re at the beginning of an epidemic in America. China is at the “middle.” Do you think that America will escape a similar fate? Consider China’s response was fast and Draconian. America’s response was, for instance, let into America about 20,000 passengers each day for the past three weeks, from Incheon Airport in South Korea, a county where the infection was growing exponentially, without even checking for fever.
I do like your:
“A little critical thinking might go a long way here...”
I hope that my level of concern turns out to be radical and I sincerely hope that your level is the one that American RNs will experience.

The Chinese report their deaths differently than the US. If a victim has died from complications related to a illness it is not reported as a related death. They are also very difficult to get information from because everything must be approved by the government for political correctness first.

Almost everyone in China smokes cigarettes and their air pollution is absolutely horrible.There are also many people there who are malnourished. This will have a big impact on casualties that the US does not face.

The bottom line is we still do not know how this will impact us. There is still too much data missing and this virus spreads fast.

pixierose, BSN, RN · Mar 16, 2020

22 minutes ago, juniper222 said:
Disbanding the NSC team may have had little impact on this. If you know something our top health officials don't know then by all means let us in. Is there a reason the CDC can't deal with those issues? Trump has a history of firing people who can't get the job done.
Once again, you show obvious political slant with your statements. However, to state it as fact when using biased sources is gaslighting by definition. That's why I put the Fox link, to show there is an opposing view that is also politicly biased. To accuse your political opponents of the very thing you are guilty of is nothing more than a stunt. We could sure use less bickering and more cooperation in the world. Critical thinking should prevail on these issues, not pandering to hysteria. Don't believe everything you read.
I am sorry to hear about your cancer. I can't imagine having to work the ED and going though chemo. Take care of yourself.

What is the CDC going to do, hold bake sales?

In the Spring of 2018, the White House pushed Congress to cut funding for Obama-era disease security programs, proposing to eliminate $252 million in previously committed resources for rebuilding health systems in Ebola-ravaged Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea. Trump dropped the proposal to eliminate Ebola funds a month later. But other White House efforts included reducing $15 billion in national health spending and cutting the global disease-fighting operational budgets of the CDC, NSC, DHS, and HHS. And the government’s $30 million Complex Crises Fund was eliminated.

You’re correct, I do hold “obvious political slant” - as do you. I’m tired of seeing the man in charge turn around and say, “not my fault!” I don’t give a DAMN if it’s your fault right now - just be a leader and help fix it. Please. Stop blaming Obama. Stop saying we have “beautiful” tests (WOW!! does that even mean?). Agree with your health officials (I.e. Fauci) because they DO know what they’re saying; stop sending mixed messages.

I would love to bicker less. Trump said that too ... only to attack “Sleepy Joe Biden” (c’mon now) in a Twitter attack less than a day later.

Cancer sucks. That, we can probably all agree on. I appreciate you telling me to take care.