I confess to back pedaling into Trump territory when I wanted to leave discussions about him in the garbage can. My thread on the read-only break room site has 9,600 replies so I thought I'd bring up a new one.
He's not going away.
Haberman's book is out based on interviews. I won't read it, but the excerpts are interesting. Especially what he says about McConnell, a description that's against the Terms of Service here, but I actually don't disagree with. LOL
Quote
“At one point, Trump made a candid admission that was as jarring as it was ultimately unsurprising. ‘The question I get asked more than any other question: “If you had it to do again, would you have done it?”’Trump said of running for president. ‘The answer is, yeah, I think so. Because here’s the way I look at it. I have so many rich friends and nobody knows who they are.’ … Reflecting on the meaning of having been president of the United States, his first impulse was not to mention public service, or what he felt he’d accomplished, only that it appeared to be a vehicle for fame, and that many experiences were only worth having if someone else envied them.”
Trump also urged Christians to turn out for him ahead of Election Day, calling it the "most important election ever." He added that if elected, Christian-related concerns will be "fixed" so much so that they would no longer need to be politically engaged.
Yes. Trump is a sinner. However a Christian yourself, you would know that Jesus loves all, even sinners. Heck, he was crucified for our sins.
When people misrepresent Jesus and the power of Christianity to transform lives and we are not to stand by and say "only God knows..." That is not the FULL word that has been given to us.
Yes only God can know what is in a person's heart. We do not judge another person's heart as to whether they will have an eternal relationship, that is for God alone.
Yes God loves all people.
-at the moment when Trump recognizes his need for repentance, and prays to God for mercy, God will extend grace to him and forgive him because that is who He is - He wants everyone to come to Faith and a knowledge of the truth.
"The Lord is not slow and keeping his promises as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance (1st Peter 3:9)
However, God has also given us through scripture, guidance on how to discern true faith - that is, whether there is outward evidence of internal belief.
Lacking any evidence and in fact displaying quite the opposite - we are indeed able to say that someone is not showing any evidence of being a Christ follower. That is not judging a person that is just identifying what can be seen outwardly.
The following are the outward evidences that someone believes:
Repents and is baptized (Acts 2:38)
Confessess Jesus as Lord and believes in His resurrection. (Romans 10:9)
Jesus said that "by their fruit you will recognize them. (Matthew 7:16-20)
What is the fruit? "Display the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.(Galatians 5:22-23)
Obedience to God's commands: "We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, 'I know him,’ but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person."(1 John 2:3-6)
"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." (John 13:35)T
"Test the spirits to see whether they are from God" (1 John 4:1)
There's definitely little to no evidence that Trump is a Christian.
While I certainly understand the idea to let Jesus decide who is a Christian because he forgives sinners, I'm with you on this one. He may pose with a Bible outside a Church, but I'm not seeing much evidence that he is a Christian.
But the good thing about being a Christian is you can behave any sort of way and pray and be forgiven. But I've been of the camp, don't tell me your a Christian, show me.
To me he's just using it as a play for votes and there are plenty of pastors that think so.
Quote
"You won't have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what? It'll be fixed, it'll be fine. You won't have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians," he said.
Trump also promised to create an anti-Christian bias federal task force, as well as to defund schools "pushing critical race theory, transgender insanity, and other inappropriate racial, sexual or political content onto the lives of our children."
The FBI has confirmed that former President Donald Trump was struck by a bullet or a bullet fragment when a gunman fired at him earlier this month.
"What struck former President Trump in the ear was a bullet, whether whole or fragmented into smaller pieces, fired from the deceased subject's rifle," the agency said in a statement Friday.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Crusades said:
Let's let Jesus decide who is a Christian or not.
You can defer if you prefer. I disagree that we aren't supposed to use our discernment to determine whether or not a person might be a follower of the Christ. Maybe that unwillingness to judge Trump by his words or actions is why so many people want to think that he's a Christian. Matthew 7:15-20 outlines a completely different POV which requires us to use our spiritual judgement to decide what kind of people are interacting with us.
Matthew 7
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
1 Corinthians 2:14-15
14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
Roman's 6:1
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
There would be evidence that Trump was a Christian in his life story and contemporary behavior ifhe was, in fact, a Christian. Instead we have evidence that Trump is a philandering liar and conman who cheated on each of his 3 wives and hurt other people because he was aggrieved.
When people misrepresent Jesus and the power of Christianity to transform lives and we are not to stand by and say "only God knows..." That is not the FULL word that has been given to us.
Yes only God can know what is in a person's heart. We do not judge another person's heart as to whether they will have an eternal relationship, that is for God alone.
Yes God loves all people.
-at the moment when Trump recognizes his need for repentance, and prays to God for mercy, God will extend grace to him and forgive him because that is who He is - He wants everyone to come to Faith and a knowledge of the truth.
"The Lord is not slow and keeping his promises as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance (1st Peter 3:9)
However, God has also given us through scripture, guidance on how to discern true faith - that is, whether there is outward evidence of internal belief.
Lacking any evidence and in fact displaying quite the opposite - we are indeed able to say that someone is not showing any evidence of being a Christ follower. That is not judging a person that is just identifying what can be seen outwardly.
The following are the outward evidences that someone believes:
Repents and is baptized (Acts 2:38)
Confessess Jesus as Lord and believes in His resurrection. (Romans 10:9)
Jesus said that "by their fruit you will recognize them. (Matthew 7:16-20)
What is the fruit? "Display the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.(Galatians 5:22-23)
Obedience to God's commands: "We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, 'I know him,’ but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person."(1 John 2:3-6)
"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." (John 13:35)T
"Test the spirits to see whether they are from God" (1 John 4:1)
Sure "let he who is without sin cast the first stone...".
You can defer if you prefer. I disagree that we aren't supposed to use our discernment to determine whether or not a person might be a follower of the Christ. Maybe that unwillingness to judge Trump by his words or actions is why so many people want to think that he's a Christian. Matthew 7:15-20 outlines a completely different POV which requires us to use our spiritual judgement to decide what kind of people are interacting with us.
Matthew 7
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
1 Corinthians 2:14-15
14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
Roman's 6:1
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
There would be evidence that Trump was a Christian in his life story and contemporary behavior ifhe was, in fact, a Christian. Instead we have evidence that Trump is a philandering liar and conman who cheated on each of his 3 wives and hurt other people because he was aggrieved.
You can allocate Christian to not Christian as you wish.
Yes and Jesus died on the cross for his sins.
I'm not saying Trump is or isn't Christian, just that it's not my place to decide. That's Jesus' job.
However it's completely ridiculous to claim he said "I'm not Christian" then ask a group of Christians to vote for him. What? 😆
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Crusades said:
If you really believed this beyond election time propaganda, then why would you have not wanted the attempted assination to be successful?
It's because you really know that Trump isn't the second coming of Hiter. That's why.
Because I don't believe in violence, especially political violence. I've said that before. It apparently doesn't fit with your beliefs or the narrative you are trying to create.
Your speculation about my reasons completely ignores what I've actually said while you say and suggest something that is baloney. Are you proud of that? Maybe it's an example of your idea of meaningful conversation or interaction with me.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Crusades said:
Who determines who is a Christian? You? LOL
Perhaps you should leave that to Jesus.
Yes. Trump is a sinner. However a Christian yourself, you would know that Jesus loves all, even sinners. Heck, he was crucified for our sins.
The Holy Spirit resides within the born again believer. The Spirit gives us discernment using the teaching in the scripture. This is how we can choose to walk with Christ and not with the guy who says things we like.
I laughed out loud when you said that Trump, the adjudicated fraud and rapist who said he never prayed for forgiveness, is a sinner and that Jesus loves him because He loves all sinners. Mostly because it was so obvious and silly and doesn't have anything to do with the evidence of Christ in someone's life. There's an abundance of evidence of sin in Trump's life but scant little evidence of a Christian faith. Apparently Trump is content to crucify Christ again and again for his daily pathological lies and deceit and ill intentions. That's the spiritual implication, right? We're not supposed to continue lying and fornicating and cheating and scheming just because we're forgiven. We're supposed to show the fruit of the Christ in increasing amounts as we practice His example of pacifism and love and compassion.
Because I don't believe in violence, especially political violence. I've said that before. It apparently doesn't fit with your beliefs or the narrative you are trying to create.
Your speculation about my reasons completely ignores what I've actually said while you say and suggest something that is baloney. Are you proud of that? Maybe it's an example of your idea of meaningful conversation or interaction with me.
Ypu literally have said Trump is Hitler, that he is a cult leader with millions of cult members who vote the same as supremist and that Trump will put people in concentration camps, take away their birthcontrol and force pregnancies. That he was responsible for thousands of COVID deaths. Also that he is a fascist and a threat to our democracy. Your cognitively intact president said it was time to put Trump in a "bullseye ". Trump imisleadi people about an election and said to "peaceful and patriotically make your voices heard", He's guilty of an insurrection. Yet nobody talks about only a few days later a man literally puts Trump in a "bullseye" And you have nothing to say abput that incitement to assination politically violent rhetoric?
Are you claiming you didn't say anything like this?
Hitler killed 6 million Jews. You say that Trump is comparable to Hitler. If someone assisinated Hitler. That would have been great and would have saved millions of lives.
But you condemn the political violence against Trump. Which means that the left Hitler propaganda is just that.
Almost forgot. Then there's a marked deflection around if Trump was actually hit with a bullet and the size of a dressing? What's that about propaganda?
He clearly laid out the agenda Christians want to hear...against abortion, against support for transgendered children, against Critical race theory, etc. I get why they would vote for him, I just wish they would admit it's the agenda and stop pretending he's a Christian because if they think that they are being conned.
Crusades
1,655 Posts
As per usual. There's been some purposeful misleading here. And of course missing context.....
The message was directed to some Christian groups that do not usually participate in political ideology or voting.
https://www.npr.org/2024/07/27/nx-s1-5054272/trump-christian-won't-vote-anymore-speech