I work at a union hospital, I feel that I am paid a fair wage and am happy with my insurance plan and benefits. While I am traditionaly not a pro union person, I do see the need for unions in some situations. My primary gripe with unions is that, in my experience, they promote political issues that I disagree with. One example is the push for an increase in the minimum wage. I don't want to get into a debate about if the minimum wage should or should not be increased, I just want to see if any of you agree or disagree with the opinion I'm about to express.
For the ease of explaining what I'm thinking I'm going to just use arbitrary numbers here. Lets say minimum wage is $5.00/hr and RN pay is $20.00/hr.
The various factors in the economy have determined that an RN makes $20/hr, or that the value of the RN is worth $15 more than than that of an unskilled or minimum wage worker.
I'm thinking that if my union is pushing for the minimum wage to increase to (for example only) $14/hr, then the union should be pushing just as hard for the RN wage to also increase by 50%. If the union does not push for an equal pay increase for the RN's it represents, then isn't it diminishing the value of the RN's education/skills/knowledge. What I'm saying is it seems that to close the gap between an RN's pay and minimum wage, we are effectively earning less or our jobs have been devalued. I'm wondering if this makes sense and if anyone agrees or disagrees and why.
Unlike past politial threads I've commented in, I promise to keep civil. I'm only interested in discussion and getting some of your input.
I think I just went from totally liberal to totally conservative all in one post. ☺️
Your post was pragmatic, in my opinion. People have to do what they have to do to survive. Poor people can add. Probably, they'll want to cut back their hours so maximize their income from all sources, that's what I would do. Or else their employers will cut them back, since they'll be hard pressed, workers will lose their insurance, and the state will pick up the tab with benefits.
I agree with the OP. If minimum wage increases, in order to afford the increase merchants will have to raise prices. If we end up paying double for food and gas, we would need a wage increase as would everyone else across the board.
Then if prices of everything doubles, the minimum wage people would be in the same situation they are now, so I think it would miss the point.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
This by Robert Reich:
"If you want a single reason for why Democrats lost big Tuesday it’s this: Median family income continues to drop, the first “recovery” when this has occurred. M...eanwhile, all the economic gains are going to the richest Americans. If the Republicans think they can reverse this through their supply-side, trickle-down, fiscal austerity policies, they’re profoundly mistaken. The public will soon discover this. But if the Democrats believe they can reverse it simply by raising taxes on the rich and redistributing to everyone else, they are mistaken, too. We need to raise the minimum wage, invest in education and infrastructure, lift the cap on income subject to Social Security payroll taxes, resurrect Glass-Steagall and limit the size of the banks, make it easier for low-wage workers to unionize, raise taxes on corporations with high ratios of CEO pay to average worker pay, and much more. In other words, we need an agenda for shared prosperity. Over the next two years the Democrats have an opportunity to advance one. If they fail to do so, we’ll need a new opposition party that represents the interests of the vast majority."
I completely agree with what ixchel said. If the goal of raising minimum wage is ensuring that people are provided with a "living wage," does this mean that they will now actually be expected to live on it?
If the goal is for less people to qualify for the various types of public assistance, maybe they're onto something. If the goal is to raise the quality of life for an adult working full-time at a minimum wage job, I think they're missing the mark.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I completely agree with what ixchel said. If the goal of raising minimum wage is ensuring that people are provided with a "living wage," does this mean that they will now actually be expected to live on it?
I am very much in favor of raising the minimum wage and could care less weather or not it provides a "living wage", whatever that is. I would have no problem raising it to $15 an hour, if done in steps. As MunoRN pointed out we are NOT talking about giving minimum wage earners MORE money, just keep up with inflation since the minimum wage has been declining in purchasing power for a long time.
In my view its a (small) way of reversing the trend of all economic gains only going to the richest as they have been lately.
Can't go to any of the fast food places and get a decent meal for less than $8 and change anymore. That is why, whether those places notice it or not, they have lost almost all of my business. I can not afford it, working or not working.
I've been a CNA for three years, have gotten a raise every year, and would have to keep working several more before I got to $15 an hour. Even with my night shift differential, I'm more than a dollar below that. I risk exposure to nasty pathogens and clean up human waste, and I deserve more than the guy making tacos at Taco Bell and I don't apologize for thinking so.
The people who lose their jobs when a minimum wage increase is forced upon the small business owners who employ them and can't afford it won't have more buying power. Let's not forget that,
Your wage would be raised to the new minimum at least as well! So it would actually benefit you. It would benefit others who are burned out with healthcare and provide another employment option with fair wages. What gets me is wages in general are so compressed and flat for most workers. If minimum wage had kept up with inflation it would be over $21/hr today! Think about that! How much are wages have decreased over the years. GM workers had wages worth $50/hr today. How far American workers have fallen! And how underpaid nurses are with all are education and training, only a few make $50/hr!
I support an increase to minimum wage, it is long overdue. We need to stop pushing education as the solution to the economy because it is a lie. Too many people getting college degrees, taking out debt that can never be forgiven in bankruptcy and no guarantee of getting a decent job to pay back all these student loans. We push the children and teens to believe a BA degree is required to make a living, get them to sign their life away at 18 with student loans they may not be able to pay back and in the end many end up with worthless degrees working minimum wage jobs, living at home, defaulting on student loans. Even people with nursing degrees, business, engineering can't find jobs and that doesn't include all the people who have been laid off and can no longer find a job due to age discrimination and the overabundance of job candidates to choose from.
Education is not the solution alone. We need all jobs to pay a fair, living wage with additional education as an option. Bankruptcy protections should be returned to student loans and the ability to refinance and all student loan interest should be eligible for a tax credit or deduction! I personally believe in tech training as the best solution for many people, national healthcare that levels the playing field for all and relieves the burden from companies to provide healthcare and which encourages age discrimination due to increased health costs from older workers.
I have confidence that if the minimum wage was increased, employers would give in to the pressure to raise wages for the rest of the workers. Worse case scenario, maybe I would take early retirement from nursing due to the stress and health dangers to my back and body, and work as a secretary instead knowing I'd at least have a fair wage to make a living!
Don't kid yourself you are already paying for all the underpaid minimum wage workers in the form of increased taxes to support medicaid, and food stamps and welfare for those the businesses like Walmart underpay so the Waltons can be billionaires and the CEO's can make millions!
Actually, as a travel nurse I do negotiate my pay rate every few months. I let my agency know whether or not a posted rate is acceptable and ask them to negotiate on my behalf with the hospitals if it is a desirable position with a lower rate. If not negotiable I turn that down and look for a position with an appropriate rate.
(Veering off topic a bit but I wanted to clarify since you came back to this)
That's great for you that you have the option to negotiate, but for the majority of nurses this isn't an option. Strong unions like the NNU have been the backbone for safe staffing and decent pay for many nurses. Unionized states tend to have higher wages than say the south for example with its Right to work states! I wish I lived in a strong unionized state and wish I had the NNU fighting for me and on my side. Many of us are stuck with the only option to either change jobs or relocate for higher pay. Not everyone can do this!
I agree our politicians are bought and sold, however I think the blame for this falls squarely on the American people. We let this happen by failing to hold our elected officials accountable. The American people are also guilty of becoming slaves to consumerism. Corporations and politicians only have the power we give them. The corporations make their profits because we buy their stuff, they ship jobs to other countries because we demand lower prices. The politicians do whatever they want because we let them. Then we complain about all these things as if none of us are to blame, using corporate executives and politicians as scapegoats. In the end they are human and do what most any of us would do given unlimited wealth and power. In America it's not the system that has failed, it's the citizen who has failed. Too many people are completely oblivious to how this country runs. I like to think the founding fathers envisioned the voters being informed citizens with some skin in the game, rather than a mass of zombies voting for whoever had the biggest advertising budget.
They ship jobs to other countries because they want to make more profits for the CEO and top dogs. It is a race to the bottom of wages for everyone and it is a disaster for American workers and the economy! With no decent jobs no one has money to buy anything and the economy goes into depression. We had a severe depression 2008-2009, not just a recession and things are still bad for many workers and the millions still unemployed today!
If minimum wage had kept up with inflation it would be over $21/hr today! Think about that!
No, that is not correct, although it was at times certainly higher than it is today. I adjusted all historical minimum wages for inflation just to see where it had been at, since I was curious. Sorry for the messed up formatting; excel doesn't like to paste nicely sometimes, but the data is still there. looks like $9 or $10 an hour would be fair.
[TABLE=width: 192]
[TR]
[TD=width: 64]year[/TD]
[TD=width: 64]wage[/TD]
[TD=width: 64]adj wage[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1938[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 0.25[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 4.21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1939[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 0.30[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 5.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1945[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 0.40[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 5.28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1950[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 0.75[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 7.39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1956[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 1.00[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 8.73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1961[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 1.15[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 9.13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1963[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 1.25[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 9.70[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1967[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 1.40[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 9.95[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1968[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 1.60[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 10.92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1974[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 2.00[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 9.63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1975[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 2.10[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 9.27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1976[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 2.30[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 9.60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1978[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 2.65[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 9.65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1979[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 2.90[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 9.48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1980[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 3.10[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 8.93[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1981[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 3.35[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 8.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1990[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 3.80[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 6.90[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1996[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 4.75[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 7.19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]1997[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 5.15[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 7.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]2007[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 5.85[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 6.70[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]2008[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 6.55[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 7.22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=align: right]2009[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 7.25[/TD]
[TD=class: xl63] $ 8.02[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Wow, that looks a lot better than in the preview. I got the minimum wage data from:
Min wage where I live is 10/hr and I, as an RN, am paid $80/hr. They can increase min wage by quite a but before it even begins to devalue my work. I make plenty of money for the work I do. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to go to school and was lucky enough to find a job after. I know a lot of people, like much of my family, have not had these opportunities. I think everyone should be paid a livable wage. I don't know that even 15 is livable where I am. I haven't ever had to try, but I know it would be tight.
Min wage where I live is 10/hr and I, as an RN, am paid $80/hr. They can increase min wage by quite a but before it even begins to devalue my work. I make plenty of money for the work I do. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to go to school and was lucky enough to find a job after. I know a lot of people, like much of my family, have not had these opportunities. I think everyone should be paid a livable wage. I don't know that even 15 is livable where I am. I haven't ever had to try, but I know it would be tight.
Bay area? That is the only place I can think of other than DC or NYC that $15 might not cover it.
This is the main reason I think this should be a county/state issue. $15 an hour is far too high to be a floor in some areas, whereas you'd be lucky to afford a shoebox in the gutter in some certain urban areas. Failing that, at least calculate the cost of living for each county like they do for military allowance for housing.
Emergent, RN
4,300 Posts
Your post was pragmatic, in my opinion. People have to do what they have to do to survive. Poor people can add. Probably, they'll want to cut back their hours so maximize their income from all sources, that's what I would do. Or else their employers will cut them back, since they'll be hard pressed, workers will lose their insurance, and the state will pick up the tab with benefits.