Don't know if I've ever posted before today (been a member for a while), but a post in another thread prompted me to respond to it and to post this. I've spent the last few years preparing for a career change into nursing and am in my first semester as a BSN student, and I'm irritated. I am NOT bashing nursing as a profession, but I am dismayed at the constant whining and complaining as well as the lack of any trace of intellectual curiosity that I have found in my short time around the profession among many BUT NOT ALL nurses. The #1 complaint among nurses that I have seen is a lack of respect by other health care professionals. You want to know why there is a lack of respect? Read on. In my short time, I've been around amazing nurses (bright, dedicated and excellent in what they do), but there are far too many that should be doing some else. Here's why nursing gets less respect than it should...
1) Constant whining. Nursing school is too hard, floor nursing is too hard, etc. News flash: most professions are really hard. Nursing isn't special in that regard. Medicine is brutal. IT, my former career, is cut throat. School teachers often have a miserable jobs. Cops work bad shifts and put their lives on the line. The list goes on an on. People that whine about nursing would whine no matter what career they are in.
2) The nursing culture. The claim of nursing being a "caring profession" (as if med techs, rad techs, RT's, etc. aren't caring), yet there is constant bashing of "bad" patients that are "noncompliant." In addition, many nurses go out of their way to humiliate students and new grads, talk about each other behind their backs, call physicians and other providers incompetent, and are in general rude, sour and bitter. Yet nursing is supposed to be the "caring" profession.
3) The nursing culture part II: Running around the hospital with balloons, teddy bears, flowers, whatever on your scrubs says to your colleagues, "I don't have a brain."
4) Nursing education. Learning to "diagnose" a patient with "Ineffective coping mechanisms related to disturbed transpersonal energy field" sounds like a bunch of hooey to a lot of people. Why? Because it is. It too screams, "I don't have a brain." Thankfully such stuff is only in the textbooks and not in the real world.
5) Feminization. I have heard ad nauseum that traditionally, physicians are men, nurses are women and that accounts for much of the disrespect. I actually agree. Ironically, many more women now are entering all health fields traditionally dominated by men (pharmacy, medicine, etc.) but there's barely been an uptick in the number of men going into nursing. Why? See #3 above for starters. Here's some other reasons. The local Sigma Theta Tau chapter at my school has brown and pink for their colors. The local CC has a teddy bear wearing an 1800's nursing hat and a big heart on its (her) chest (that'll make males race to apply to the program). Which, BTW, also screams, "I don't have a brain."
6) Lack of intellectual curiosity/knowledge. See #3 and #5 as well. One of my instructors this semester (who is a licensed pediatric nurse practitioner) could not answer a question as to what a lesion is. A nurse during my clinical last week did not know the difference between a H2 antagonist and a proton pump inhibitor, yet has been nursing for 20 years. My clinical instructor (with an MSN) "corrected" me and explained that myasthenia gravis is an intestinal disorder. I'm guessing they are like the students I had in my science prereqs that hated science and were just glad to get them done so they could apply to nursing school - never mind the fact that the sciences are the foundation of all modern health care practice. Would you go to a doctor that hated or was bad at science? What about a respiratory or physical therapist? Do everyone a favor - if you hate or are bad at science, spare your future patients and find another career.
In short, there's got to be a change in nursing culture for the profession to be respected.
When you develop a broken back and ruin your legs in 30 years come back and make the same statement again...I have been in this profession for a short period of time but I arleady have experienced strain on my back.
I mentioned it once in its own right, in passing. Every other mention afterward has been in response to you - it is the topic we're discussing, the point you are arguing, and the point I'm defending. (I can't believe I actually had to say that)
I think, perhaps, you are assuming that just because you share the OP's opinions, that the reasons behind why each of you hold the opinions must be the same - and thereby internalizing any criticism of the OP's point of view. It would help to discuss why you hold your opinions irrespective of what you believe the OP's reasons to be.
Well, you've mentioned a few times that you've been wrong before , so I'll just chalk this up to one of those times. No internalizing of criticism. I'm just puzzled that you've extrapolated that the OP is male and that their comments were thinly veiled chauvinism, from the fact that the OP doesn't think cartoon characters on scrub tops ( in non-pediatric venues) or that a CC nursing program using a teddy bear dressed as a nurse are examples of looking professional. Of course, I could be wrong as well....but that seems to be a HUGE leap in logic.
Honestly, even if the OP is a man, it is perplexing to me that somehow saying the above listed actions aren't professional is an attack against women at all? Are childish prints now the "in" thing in the pages of Vogue? Are models strutting down the runway in Bryant Park wearing the latest Scooby Doo fashions designed by the worlds most avant guard designers? Was the latest female executive on the cover of CEO magazine wearing a teddy bear sweatshirt for her cover shot? Or are these prints still what we see on children's pajamas (both boys and girls)? How is stating their opinion, wearing clothing made from the same prints that children's pajamas are made from isn't professional, a chauvinist remark?
If someone chastised a female lawyer for coming in to work with a teddy bear print jacket...it wouldn't be because they were female, it would because they were dressing inappropriately. That's not chauvinism, thinly veiled or not.
I can understand disagreeing with the OP's comment, but calling it chauvinism seems more like casting aspersions than participating in a good-faith debate.
I have been discussing this with you. I didn't see it as a comment in passing as it was the entirety of your post (#132).
If I had to guess, I'd say the OP is a "He"...That's just the impression I get from all the rant about hearts, flowers, and teddy bears. Almost comes off as thinly veiled chauvinism to me...I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time.
who but you said i was disturbed? i don't remember saying so....
in regards to the other thread, 1. we see what we want to see, i suppose. he saw venting as no less than bragging and you see his 2.tirade as nothing more than concern. for me, though i can't put my finger on it, i get the impression that there's something a little off beneath the surface. just going off of what seems to be the strongest 3. recurring theme (which is his preoccupation with feminization, hands down). like i said before, i could be wrong. wouldn't be the first time.
1. i guess we all are seeing what we want to see
2. i did not see a tirade, i saw someone very concerned with the image of nursing trying to explain/figure out what they were seeing.
3. nursing will never evolve imo until we become more gender netural
'Running around the hospital with balloons, teddy bears, flowers, whatever on your scrubs says to your colleagues, "I don't have a brain."'
I'm one of those colleagues and you don't get to speak for ME. That attire, particularly common for peds nurses, may scream brainless to YOU but to me it says 'approachable and nonthreatening'. Heaven forbid the 3-year old client you're trying to serve might think you're lacking in intellectual rigor...
I don't work peds and wear those scrubs as well. Believe it or not adults and especially geriatric patients love the animation and humor. It takes their minds off of illness if just for a few seconds. The 5 minutes that it took me to explain who spongebob was to an elderly man allowed us to get the sample we had been stalking for days because he was distracted and laughing. Get over yourself just a little.
"I sewed my husband 3 scrub shirts with chickens on them"
I have no idea why exactly, but that absolutely cracked me up to no end! I mean no disrespect either, honestly. That image just made me laugh so hard. I also thought it said "I screwed my husband" when I first looked at it too - I think I'm just loopy and need to go to bed...
I hope you got some sleep!
Hey, I sewed (not screwed ) the darn things, and I still giggled each time he left the house wearing a chicken shirt. I tell you what, though. The old people who were previously farmers, even if they had pretty advanced dementia, could still identify the chicken breeds on the shirts. Many of his residents got a kick out of the chickens, too. Maybe it was "unprofessional," but the ones that ultimately mattered where he was wearing the shirts would ask him when he'd wear the chickens again because they liked the different shirts.
So why is it that there are nurses with 15 years of experience on you (4 x your experience) that have responded on this thread that agree with me?
I don't think the OP is a "know it all" just opinionated, and wants to find out if there are people who feels the same way he does. I agree with him, although wouldn't advise him to lat his instructors know they are airheads (and some of them may be). There are some nurses just putting in time, and some that do critical thinking, look at research, and try to advocate for patients. The type of people you wind up working with depends a lot on where you choose to work.
Specializes in L&D; GI; Fam Med; Home H; Case mgmt.
You know, somehow scrubs with chickens on them would offend my delicate sensibilities far less than scrubs with stupid cartoon characters on them. I have no rational or logical reasons to back up my feelings though, so let's just chalk it up to personal preference! haha
Some of the things the OP said have some truth to them. The culture of nursing at times is pretty dysfunctional and cutthroat, but that's not unique to the nursing world.
As to whining, the OP was never a teacher.....oy! Talk about endless whining with no one wanting to try to improve things.....way worse there in my opinion.
In the small hospital I worked in for a year I saw a plethora of nurses who had no interest in learning anything new or critically thinking. They were both new nurses and old. Where I work now, the nurses are on top of any new research and think critically.
I don't work peds and wear those scrubs as well. Believe it or not adults and especially geriatric patients love the animation and humor. It takes their minds off of illness if just for a few seconds. The 5 minutes that it took me to explain who spongebob was to an elderly man allowed us to get the sample we had been stalking for days because he was distracted and laughing. Get over yourself just a little.
"I'm not new to this I'm true to this "
The elderly especially love the bright and cheery patterns. I have received many compliments on my scrub tops from the little old ladies at my job. They seem to prefer flowery prints though as I don't think many of them know who spongebob is.
I agree with some of what the OP says, but the method of delivery and the constant back and forth bickering have left me unable to continue reading beyond page 3.
And as I pedi nurse, I love my cartoon scrubs and so do my patients
Well, you've mentioned a few times that you've been wrong before , so I'll just chalk this up to one of those times. No internalizing of criticism. I'm just puzzled that you've extrapolated that the OP is male and that their comments were thinly veiled chauvinism, from the fact that the OP doesn't think cartoon characters on scrub tops ( in non-pediatric venues) or that a CC nursing program using a teddy bear dressed as a nurse are examples of looking professional. Of course, I could be wrong as well....but that seems to be a HUGE leap in logic.
Honestly, even if the OP is a man, it is perplexing to me that somehow saying the above listed actions aren't professional is an attack against women at all? Are childish prints now the "in" thing in the pages of Vogue? Are models strutting down the runway in Bryant Park wearing the latest Scooby Doo fashions designed by the worlds most avant guard designers? Was the latest female executive on the cover of CEO magazine wearing a teddy bear sweatshirt for her cover shot? Or are these prints still what we see on children's pajamas (both boys and girls)? How is stating their opinion, wearing clothing made from the same prints that children's pajamas are made from isn't professional, a chauvinist remark?
If someone chastised a female lawyer for coming in to work with a teddy bear print jacket...it wouldn't be because they were female, it would because they were dressing inappropriately. That's not chauvinism, thinly veiled or not.
I can understand disagreeing with the OP's comment, but calling it chauvinism seems more like casting aspersions than participating in a good-faith debate.
I have been discussing this with you. I didn't see it as a comment in passing as it was the entirety of your post (#132).
I have no inclination to continue to explain to you points which you continue to ignore. If you still have questions of me, they can most likely be answered in previous posts I've made. I don't have the kind of time it would take to walk you through it.
Your existence as a woman who is offended by childish prints is no more evidence for the OP sharing your exact gender and perspective as my saying that as a woman who isn't offended by childish prints, I am evidence that all women are not offended by childish prints. You put far too much confidence in your own perspective. I doubt it's as far reaching and all encompassing of others as you believe.
In regards to your opinion on the matter, I will tell you again what I told you before: You are as entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to not care in the slightest about said opinion.
Your dodging the question. Your point was that because you are a nurse, and I am just a student, that I had no place to comment on such matters therefore my opinions were invalid, due to my lack of experience. I then pointed out that there are those in this thread that agree with me that have 4-5 x the experience you have. So, I will ask you again. How does my lack of experience make my opinion wrong when there are those that have far more experience that you that agree with me?
There are always going to be some who agree with you. I am sure you could open a discussion about how LPN's should be paid double what RN's make and that CNA's are more important than MD's, or you could state that every nurse should wear jeans and sweatshirts to work and you will find those who agree with you. It doesn't make it wrong to disagree with you. And you really do come off as somewhat of a "know it all".
) the darn things, and I still giggled each time he left the house wearing a chicken shirt. I tell you what, though. The old people who were previously farmers, even if they had pretty advanced dementia, could still identify the chicken breeds on the shirts. Many of his residents got a kick out of the chickens, too. Maybe it was "unprofessional," but the ones that ultimately mattered where he was wearing the shirts would ask him when he'd wear the chickens again because they liked the different shirts.
Blackheartednurse
1,216 Posts
When you develop a broken back and ruin your legs in 30 years come back and make the same statement again...I have been in this profession for a short period of time but I arleady have experienced strain on my back.