Don't know if I've ever posted before today (been a member for a while), but a post in another thread prompted me to respond to it and to post this. I've spent the last few years preparing for a career change into nursing and am in my first semester as a BSN student, and I'm irritated. I am NOT bashing nursing as a profession, but I am dismayed at the constant whining and complaining as well as the lack of any trace of intellectual curiosity that I have found in my short time around the profession among many BUT NOT ALL nurses. The #1 complaint among nurses that I have seen is a lack of respect by other health care professionals. You want to know why there is a lack of respect? Read on. In my short time, I've been around amazing nurses (bright, dedicated and excellent in what they do), but there are far too many that should be doing some else. Here's why nursing gets less respect than it should...
1) Constant whining. Nursing school is too hard, floor nursing is too hard, etc. News flash: most professions are really hard. Nursing isn't special in that regard. Medicine is brutal. IT, my former career, is cut throat. School teachers often have a miserable jobs. Cops work bad shifts and put their lives on the line. The list goes on an on. People that whine about nursing would whine no matter what career they are in.
2) The nursing culture. The claim of nursing being a "caring profession" (as if med techs, rad techs, RT's, etc. aren't caring), yet there is constant bashing of "bad" patients that are "noncompliant." In addition, many nurses go out of their way to humiliate students and new grads, talk about each other behind their backs, call physicians and other providers incompetent, and are in general rude, sour and bitter. Yet nursing is supposed to be the "caring" profession.
3) The nursing culture part II: Running around the hospital with balloons, teddy bears, flowers, whatever on your scrubs says to your colleagues, "I don't have a brain."
4) Nursing education. Learning to "diagnose" a patient with "Ineffective coping mechanisms related to disturbed transpersonal energy field" sounds like a bunch of hooey to a lot of people. Why? Because it is. It too screams, "I don't have a brain." Thankfully such stuff is only in the textbooks and not in the real world.
5) Feminization. I have heard ad nauseum that traditionally, physicians are men, nurses are women and that accounts for much of the disrespect. I actually agree. Ironically, many more women now are entering all health fields traditionally dominated by men (pharmacy, medicine, etc.) but there's barely been an uptick in the number of men going into nursing. Why? See #3 above for starters. Here's some other reasons. The local Sigma Theta Tau chapter at my school has brown and pink for their colors. The local CC has a teddy bear wearing an 1800's nursing hat and a big heart on its (her) chest (that'll make males race to apply to the program). Which, BTW, also screams, "I don't have a brain."
6) Lack of intellectual curiosity/knowledge. See #3 and #5 as well. One of my instructors this semester (who is a licensed pediatric nurse practitioner) could not answer a question as to what a lesion is. A nurse during my clinical last week did not know the difference between a H2 antagonist and a proton pump inhibitor, yet has been nursing for 20 years. My clinical instructor (with an MSN) "corrected" me and explained that myasthenia gravis is an intestinal disorder. I'm guessing they are like the students I had in my science prereqs that hated science and were just glad to get them done so they could apply to nursing school - never mind the fact that the sciences are the foundation of all modern health care practice. Would you go to a doctor that hated or was bad at science? What about a respiratory or physical therapist? Do everyone a favor - if you hate or are bad at science, spare your future patients and find another career.
In short, there's got to be a change in nursing culture for the profession to be respected.
I have no inclination to continue to explain to you points which you continue to ignore. If you still have questions of me, they can most likely be answered in previous posts I've made. I don't have the kind of time it would take to walk you through it.
Your existence as a woman who is offended by childish prints is no more evidence for the OP sharing your exact gender and perspective as my saying that as a woman who isn't offended by childish prints, I am evidence that all women are not offended by childish prints. You put far too much confidence in your own perspective. I doubt it's as far reaching and all encompassing of others as you believe.
In regards to your opinion on the matter, I will tell you again what I told you before: You are as entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to not care in the slightest about said opinion.
You've yet to answer a question. Just continued to point out your perception of the OP's gender and chauvinism d/t the fact that they think childish prints are not professional. I've yet to ignore a point you've made, I've merely disagreed. Does a lack of agreement equate to lack of understanding for you? I see them as different situations.
I'm not offended by childish prints, however the idea that childish prints are somehow feminine is a bit offensive (so is your perspective that childish prints are feminine and adult prints are masculine? I find that to be a very odd idea).
There were certainly some sweeping generalizations made from a handful of posts in your last paragraph. Interesting conclusions were drawn, seems to be another radical leap of logic. A pattern perhaps? Not sure why you feel the need to point out that you're entitled not to care about my opinion....what on earth would make you think anything else? I suspect your level of concern of my opinion ranks right about mine of yours. Forgive me for not repeating it throughout my posts, as I thought that was self-evident.
You've yet to answer a question. Just continued to point out your perception of the OP's gender and chauvinism d/t the fact that they think childish prints are not professional. I've yet to ignore a point you've made, I've merely disagreed. Does a lack of agreement equate to lack of understanding for you? I see them as different situations.
I'm not offended by childish prints, however the idea that childish prints are somehow feminine is a bit offensive (so is your perspective that childish prints are feminine and adult prints are masculine? I find that to be a very odd idea).
There were certainly some sweeping generalizations made from a handful of posts in your last paragraph. Interesting conclusions were drawn, seems to be another radical leap of logic. A pattern perhaps? Not sure why you feel the need to point out that you're entitled not to care about my opinion....what on earth would make you think anything else? I suspect your level of concern of my opinion ranks right about mine of yours. Forgive me for not repeating it throughout my posts, as I thought that was self-evident.
Cheers,
CuriousMe
Wow...Are you kidding me? From the original post - the one that launched this thread:
5) Feminization. I have heard ad nauseum that traditionally, physicians are men, nurses are women and that accounts for much of the disrespect. I actually agree. Ironically, many more women now are entering all health fields traditionally dominated by men (pharmacy, medicine, etc.) but there's barely been an uptick in the number of men going into nursing. Why? See #3 above for starters. Here's some other reasons. The local Sigma Theta Tau chapter at my school has brown and pink for their colors. The local CC has a teddy bear wearing an 1800's nursing hat and a big heart on its (her) chest (that'll make males race to apply to the program). Which, BTW, also screams, "I don't have a brain."
The bolding is mine. The underlining of "pink" is the OP's. Underlining of "her" is mine.
When he says "See #3", this is what he is referring to:
3) The nursing culture part II: Running around the hospital with balloons, teddy bears, flowers, whatever on your scrubs says to your colleagues, "I don't have a brain."
The OP points to what he views as feminization AGAIN later in the post:
6) Lack of intellectual curiosity/knowledge. See #3 and #5 as well.
The OP posts this remark in a response to a poster who uses hearts to emphasize her post:
By the way, the hearts were a nice touch.
The OP adds this remark to a post that is supposed to be about his experience as a nurse:
(as if my experience or lack thereof had anything to do with my local honor society using pink on everything).
And later:
Secondly, what does experience have to do with the fact that schools use teddy bears in their marketing material and how that discourages male applicants? Or how does experience have any relevance to the fact that flowers on scrubs make nurses look unprofessional and unintelligent to other health care professionals (Don't believe me? Ask around)
Which says to me that he feels that the nursing profession is discouraging male applicants by using what he considers feminine marketing images because in his estimation, men cannot relate to teddy bears, flowers, hearts, what have you. Though he did also say that he found the use of such things as unprofessional, you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that he also described the use of such images as uniquely feminine.
In another thread, the OP chooses again to focus on what he calls "cute little graphics" which have absolutely nothing to do with his argument or the topic of the post he's responding to:
Maybe you should try putting as much effort into understanding your patients as you do finding cute little graphics to put in your posts.
Talk about a non sequitur. And you don't see that this person (he or she) has a preoccupation with feminization? If you paid as much attention to the words of the person you're supporting as you have to my words, perhaps you might see it for what it appears to be (notice I didn't say for what it is - because I can admit that I don't know for certain).
Also, the word childish to describe prints comes from you:
Are childish prints now the "in" thing in the pages of Vogue? Are models strutting down the runway in Bryant Park wearing the latest Scooby Doo fashions designed by the worlds most avant guard designers? Was the latest female executive on the cover of CEO magazine wearing a teddy bear sweatshirt for her cover shot? Or are these prints still what we see on children's pajamas (both boys and girls)?
Look, I have acknowledged your point that the OP isn't necessarily male or chauvinistic. Theoretically, your point is valid, but theoretically, it is no more valid than anyone else’s (including mine). In reality, I can’t prove I’m right and you can’t prove I’m wrong – no matter how many ways you put it. The only way to prove either point is to lay eyes on the OP. If you are refusing to recognize that logic for the sake of being antagonistic, then go find someone else to antagonize.
Wow...Are you kidding me? From the original post - the one that launched this thread:
The bolding is mine. The underlining of "pink" is the OP's. Underlining of "her" is mine.
When he says "See #3", this is what he is referring to:
The OP points to what he views as feminization AGAIN later in the post:
The OP posts this remark in a response to a poster who uses hearts to emphasize her post:
The OP adds this remark to a post that is supposed to be about his experience as a nurse:
And later:
Which says to me that he feels that the nursing profession is discouraging male applicants by using what he considers feminine marketing images because in his estimation, men cannot relate to teddy bears, flowers, hearts, what have you. Though he did also say that he found the use of such things as unprofessional, you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that he also described the use of such images as uniquely feminine.
In another thread, the OP chooses again to focus on what he calls "cute little graphics" which have absolutely nothing to do with his argument or the topic of the post he's responding to:
Talk about a non sequitur. And you don't see that this person (he or she) has a preoccupation with feminization? If you paid as much attention to the words of the person you're supporting as you have to my words, perhaps you might see it for what it appears to be (notice I didn't say for what it is - because I can admit that I don't know for certain).
Also, the word childish to describe prints comes from you:
Look, I have acknowledged your point that the OP isn't necessarily male or chauvinistic. Theoretically, your point is valid, but theoretically, it is no more valid than anyone else's (including mine). In reality, I can't prove I'm right and you can't prove I'm wrong - no matter how many ways you put it. The only way to prove either point is to lay eyes on the OP. If you are refusing to recognize that logic for the sake of being antagonistic, then go find someone else to antagonize.
To triquee, I also had the impression that the OP was a male and not of American ethnicity. Nothing wrong with that, just got that impression. Don't want to start a "fight" with anybody here. So :redpinkhe to everybody
I can't speak for the OP, but I'm not a He....yet feel the same way about the hearts, flowers and teddy bears. Unless it's in a peds unit, or in a place (like Community Health) where you're going to have kids around, it's just unprofessional.
Actually I think it is quite appropriate in LTC also. My residents loved my different srubs...especially sponge bob.
At my new facility, acute, all nurse wear white on the top and blue or white on the bottom. And although it looks very nice and professional, I still don't have issue with someone wearing prints. It wouldn't make me feel they are less of a nurse. :)
triquee I'm definitely with CuriousMe... except I'll be more direct.
I think that you were offended by the OPs points but couldn't invalidate them logically and therefor you emotionally reacted with the idea that the OP must be hostile and jumped to the conclusion that the OP must be a male chauvinist and therefor his points are invalid because that is what your ego needed.
I'm not a nurse yet, just a student in the pre-nursing stages right now... but I wanted to chime in on the subject of printed scrubs... from a patient/family member perspective.
While some people may see them as unprofessional, some people see them as just one more way a nurse 'enjoys' his/her job. I think someone who has 'fun' with their attire while still being competent and effective at their job has the true spirit of enjoying their job. They also convey a more approachable image...
As for the bulk of the original post, there may be valid points based on personal opinion and anecdotal evidence... but the tone of the post is too condescending to see them. OP needs to keep in mind that the delivery is just as important as the point one is attempting to make.
And I'm actually looking forward to having the option of making my own fun scrubs... I can only hope that I find a job with the freedom to wear them! :) Add that to my natural blond hair, and I'm sure I'll look nice and brainless... to some people... but I am certainly NOT brainless...
triquee I'm definitely with CuriousMe... except I'll be more direct.
I think that you were offended by the OPs points but couldn't invalidate them logically and therefor you emotionally reacted with the idea that the OP must be hostile and jumped to the conclusion that the OP must be a male chauvinist and therefor his points are invalid because that is what your ego needed.
The OP doesn't offend me in the least. My initial criticism of his argument was that he was doing an awful lot of whining and not taking any constructive action - the very same thing he was accusing other people of. I felt (and still feel) that he was being hypocritical, which does nothing to strengthen his argument. If he wants to see real change happen, he needs to go out, take some responsibility, and change something instead of whining about it. I also stated early on that I do not entirely disagree with his point of view, but with his delivery, which I described as petulant, because in my opinion, it is.
I jumped only to the conclusion that the OP is male, based on what might be considered a mildly chauvinistic undercurrent to his argument.
Here's the transcript:
What's so funny about this, sarjasy, is that here you are, exhibiting the exact personality deficits you are so critical of. Only a few months in and seeing a pattern emerge, a problematic pattern...And how do you respond? By jumping on a message board and pointing fingers. I don't disagree with you in many respects. But it's clear enough to me that your approach is petulant.
What do you suppose is the idea underlying the actions and words of those who complain about nursing image but do nothing constructive to change it? That it's someone else's problem and someone else's responsibility to fix it.
The reason why your experience makes or breaks the respectability of your perspective, is because unless you've been at ground zero enacting change with your actions, working diligently with patience, respect, and humanity for those in the environment you're trying to change, your words mean jack.
Put your convictions to the test. Perhaps then you will have something constructive to impart, something real people can use. Then, come back and start delegating responsibility.
If it bothers you so intensely, change it.
Do something besides whine about it.
So call the school's administrator and voice your concerns. Put up or shut up. If you want to see a change, try talking to the people who can make that happen instead of berating a bunch of strangers.
What are you afraid of? That your intrinsic disgust for the population you see as representative of the profession will shine through to them the way it shines through here? This is a safe place to vent, though, right? You're smart enough to know that your venting here isn't likely to do anything more than **** people off, so what's this really about?
This is after he continued to respond with indignations about how the profession has been feminized. This was the point when I started to suspect something was amiss, so I went back and looked at this thread in more detail - and came across the other thread.
In answer to your question...They're not the ones complaining, you are. Don't chicken out now. Own it. You're not going to win any points by advancing your agenda on the backs of your supporters. Show me the money, Jerry.
8 pages later, OP is long gone, in response to:
Will this be another new nurse who doesn't know what she doesn't know ? Just my casual observation.
I mention in passing, that I think the OP is actually male and state the reasons why I think he is actually male:
If I had to guess, I'd say the OP is a "He"...That's just the impression I get from all the rant about hearts, flowers, and teddy bears. Almost comes off as thinly veiled chauvinism to me...I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time.
The rest has been in response to CuriousMe, who couldn't understand where I was getting the impression that the OP was fixated on feminization. Which I just outlined in detail.
triquee I'm definitely with CuriousMe... except I'll be more direct.
I think that you were offended by the OPs points but couldn't invalidate them logically and therefor you emotionally reacted with the idea that the OP must be hostile and jumped to the conclusion that the OP must be a male chauvinist and therefor his points are invalid because that is what your ego needed.
The reason I went into nursing? I was 11yrs old and my mother suffered a stroke secondary to HTN. The stroke was so severe she lost her eyesight and she had to stay in the hospital for months to recuperate. I basically lived in and out of hospitals until she passed 4 yrs ago. My memories are NOT what nurses, Dr.'s, or other staff were wearing or what sex they were. I watched as ALL hospital staff took care of her and treated her, if they smiled when they spoke to her, despite that she was blind and couldnt see them. How they fed, cared, touched, and approached her. At 11, I decided what my profession was going to be....I wanted to be a nurse. It was the emotional aspect of nursing that wrenched at my heart. I have memories of nurses that were horrendous and spiteful and I REMEMBER them wearing starched, pristine white uniforms. There were nurses that looked young and hip and they were tender hearted, and treated my mother like she was the only patient they had. I went into nursing to make a difference, at times I wonder if certain people go into nursing for the wrong reason? When I step out onto the floor to work my assignment, my PRIORITY is first and foremost my PATIENTS. Seeing a patient smile when I walk into the room after I have been off, and them asking "where have you been?" is the reason why I LOVE nursing. Better yet, being stopped almost on a daily basis in town by a former patient with a lanky pre-teen by their side and being introduced as "this is the nurse who helped me bring you into the world", makes everything else mentioned in these posts......trivial.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
My experience with nurses and a hospitalized 4 year old brother made me decide to go into nursing, too, Nurselizy. And as Triquee mentioned earlier, patients and family members in crisis are not generally paying attention to things like Snoopy prints. Thanks for sharing your experience and I agree wholeheartedly.
CuriousMe
2,642 Posts
You've yet to answer a question. Just continued to point out your perception of the OP's gender and chauvinism d/t the fact that they think childish prints are not professional. I've yet to ignore a point you've made, I've merely disagreed. Does a lack of agreement equate to lack of understanding for you? I see them as different situations.
I'm not offended by childish prints, however the idea that childish prints are somehow feminine is a bit offensive (so is your perspective that childish prints are feminine and adult prints are masculine? I find that to be a very odd idea).
There were certainly some sweeping generalizations made from a handful of posts in your last paragraph. Interesting conclusions were drawn, seems to be another radical leap of logic. A pattern perhaps? Not sure why you feel the need to point out that you're entitled not to care about my opinion....what on earth would make you think anything else? I suspect your level of concern of my opinion ranks right about mine of yours. Forgive me for not repeating it throughout my posts, as I thought that was self-evident.
Cheers,
CuriousMe